Once Saved Always Saved?

Matthew 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
-note that Christ is speaking to His disciples here.

Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut if off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

-Conduct plays a part in our eternal destination.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven

-notice it's not enough merely to know that he is Lord, but we must "do" the will of God.

Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved -

-note that sin/iniquity will cause many to lose their love (just like the church at Ephesus in Rev.chpt2) Also note that it's not how you start the race, but how you finish!

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

-this is an interesting parable of the Lord reckoning with "his servants".

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it

-Both of these individuals heard the word, but only the one who obeys the commands of God can know that he is resting on the rock!

Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away

-note that this person "heard the word", "received the word (with joy)", "believed for a while", but ultimately "fell away". So we see that it is possible to begin the race, but not finish.

Luke 9:25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?

-it is interesting that Christ used the term "cast away"- this term is used by the apostle Paul in I Cor. as well, and refers to the special punishment of an apostate believer.

Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

-self-explanatory verse indeed. Let us not be as Lot's wife, who should have escaped destruction but looked back.

Luke 12:41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

-A few things I would like to draw your attention to. First, this is a "servant" looking for "his LORD". Next notice the statement he makes "my Lord delayeth his coming". This would not be applicable to an unbeliever, as we know they are not looking for the return of Christ. Note that he also begins to live an immoral lifestyle as a result of his judgement that his Lord "delayeth his coming". If he were an unbeliever, he would already be committing these types of sins, not just then entering into them. Maybe most importantly, note that this "evil servant" is given his portion with "the unbelievers" (note it doesn't say with the other unbelievers). The fact that Christ makes this dichotomy, speaks volumes to the fact that this individual was indeed a believer. Also supporting this view, is the fact that Christ further states that a person who "knows the LORD's will" and doesn't do it, is in worse shape than the one who "knew not" the LORD's will!

Also from the gospel of John:

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

This parable emphatically renounces the doctrine of o.s.a.s. Note in verse 2 that the branches "IN HIM" that do not bear fruit will be taken away. Notice in verse 6, if a man does not "ABIDE" (or remain/continue) in Christ he is cast forth "withered" (indicating it used to be alive) and cast into the fire.

Look at the parable of the prodigal son.

Luke 15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons: 15:12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living. 15:13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living. 15:14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want. 15:15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. 15:16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him. 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: 15:23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry. 15:25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing. 15:26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant. 15:27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound. 15:28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him. 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: 15:30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf. 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Just a few quick notes about this parable. Note both of these were SONS (verse 11). Note also that in verse 24 that the son was dead and is alive "AGAIN" (implying he was alive to begin with!) Verse 32 also echoes this thought. Remember Ephesians 2 refers to the time when we were "dead in trespasses and sins" and Jude speaks of those "twice dead".

 

The earliest Christians taught that perseverance was not guarenteed, and that many true Christians would not finish the race, and would be lost. Intense persecution in the early Church brought this issue to the fore. Some were faithful even to martyrdom, and others forsook the Faith when faced with death or torture. The following quote from Irenaeus (early 2nd cent.) illustrates the early Christian view immediately following the time of the Apostles.

"And to as many as continue in their love towards God, does He grant communion with Him. But communion with God is life and light, and the enjoyment of all the benefits which He has in store. But on as many as, according to their own choice, depart from God. He inflicts that separation from Himself which they have chosen of their own accord. But separation from God is death, and separation from light is darkness; and separation from God consists in the loss of all the benefits which He has in store. Those, therefore, who cast away by apostasy these forementioned things, being in fact destitute of all good, do experience every kind of punishment. God, however, does not punish them immediately of Himself, but that punishment falls upon them because they are destitute of all that is good. Now, good things are eternal and without end with God, and therefore the loss of these is also eternal and never-ending. It is in this matter just as occurs in the case of a flood of light: those who have blinded themselves, or have been blinded by others, are for ever deprived of the enjoyment of light. It is not, [however], that the light has inflicted upon them the penalty of blindness, but it is that the blindness itself has brought calamity upon them: and therefore the Lord declared, “He that believeth in Me is not condemned,” that is, is not separated from God, for he is united to God through faith. On the other hand, He says, “He that believeth not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God;” that is, he separated himself from God of his own accord. “For this is the condemnation, that light is come into this world, and men have loved darkness rather than light. For every one who doeth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that he has wrought them in God.”" (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book V, XXVII, 2)

 

Steaver wrote:

"YES"!!!!!!! I DO IN FACT :The passages certainly speak for themselves and yet even within the context of the small but powerful epistle it is easily seen that Paul's intent in writting to Timothy was very simple and flows fine with the original post:
A. Why is Paul writing?1.
1 Tim 3: 15 but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth. NASU
a. Paul urges Timothy to instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines and not to occupy themselves with myths and endless genealogies. 1:3, 4
b. These things do not further the administration of God which is by the faith.
c. These things lead to fruitless discussions. V.5
d. The point is not to stray from the gospel.
2. Paul urges Timothy to fight the good fight, to keep the faith and a good conscience… 1:18, 19


So even as I put this lesson together I started my lesson by rereading the epistle, then finding the Key verse where Paul explains why he is writting. The context only confirms what I believed, but it is not as if I merited my understand prior to understanding the context.

Why not disprove the ideas from 1 Timothy with the context if they are wrong, go ahead and do what you say I should have done and concider the context and show me how Paul really did not mean what he said concerning those within the church (of the faith).

I do commend you Steaver for being the only one that actually achknowledged the OP and had least responded to the actual text that was used. Six pages of words and no other reponse to 1 Timothy.

So let's do this "STEAVER" let's work through the epistle for everone to see, me and you, let's look at the context and not run to other passages, since you say I won't do it, let's do that very thing and see if your right about me and about the context to which Paul is writting, which I have shown you above.