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LOL, could not have said it better. It seems everyone is a Greek and Hebrew with the advent of translators on the internet.

 

It is easier to disuss these things with my 5-yr-old daughter than it is with you.

In your opening paragraph of the OP, you state that faith means to bind. That is what I'm discussing--your total lack of facility in Greek.

At this point, I do not care about the conclusions you are drawing about faith, rather I care about the disinformation you are spreading by seeking to define faith and doing so wrongly.

This discussion, contrary to your Quixotic "California Dreamin,'" has nothing to do at this point with theology, nothing to do with Calvinism or Arminianism. No, this discussion has to do with the proverbial meaning of what "is" is.

Yo cannot get past my theology and assume that in my pointing out your error that I'm attacking you and your theology. That us sad.

The Archangel.

 

Strong himself was a Calvinist so he starts with a biased view and a biased definition. His definition is his own and it is slanted, if not just plain wrong.
Faith is not a gift from God.
Faith is confidence that one puts in another.
Even the verse that Strong refers to (1John 5:4) uses the expression "our faith." It speaks of one's own faith.
Abraham was justified by faith. Whose faith? God's faith??? No. His own faith--when he put HIS faith in God. That is when God justified him. It is ludicrous to think that God forces one to believe by putting HIS faith in an unsaved person so that this unsaved person must believe with God's faith. But that is what the Calvinist would have us to believe.

Faith is used n two ways in the Bible.
It is one of the fruits of the Spirit.
It is a spiritual gift named in 1Cor.12.
Now, would God give either spiritual fruit of a gift of the Spirit to an unsaved person? A silly idea indeed! But this is the supposition of the Calvinist.

Faith is not a work. Therefore when man believes it is not by works. Faith is opposed to works. A man is saved by faith and not by works as the Bible clearly teaches in Eph.2:8,9.
Nowhere does the Bible teach that faith is a gift given to unbelievers; absolutely nowhere. No Calvinist has ever shown me this; they just believe it without Scriptural support. Without this unbiblical premise, their Calvinistic paradigm falls.

 

Ohhhhhh LOL this is rich in humor! ROFL....REALLY LAUGHABLE :laugh:

No worries......I luv ya! :love2::tongue3:

 

those words that ask sinners to do all of those things are true, its just that only the sinners chosen in chrsit shall actually be enabled to do all that!

 

He graduated from Wesleyan University. How can you consider him a Calvinist? Are you from the Norm Geisler school of false advertizing?

That's shameful on your part.

 

That is some pretty flawed logic considering that Jacobus Arminius graduated from JOHN CALVIN'S SCHOOL and ended up...well..an ARMINIAN.

James Strong IS a Calvinist, that is a well known fact.

 

Faith is not a gift of God??? That takes the cake. Everything we have is a gift from God. Not only that, faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Do gifts of the Holy Spirit appear at the will of man? Eph 2: 8-9 says faith is a gift. Here is an excellent article on the subject.

Faith is a topic that is probably the most confused topic in all of Christianity and since Satan is the author of confusion, the mess must be of him.

Most people think that faith is a synonym for believe so they think that they have to believe something is so and it will be so. Others link faith with determination and if they are determined enough that they will develop faith and then they can have what they are determined for. One Bible teacher classes such people as "white-knuckled Christians". They clench their fists in a strong desire to believe something is so and then they can have what they want. People even tell others that they are not healed because they don't have enough faith, or their prayers are not answered because they don't have enough faith. A Christian telling another Christian that they are not healed because they don't have enough faith is an awful thing to say. Joni Erickson had people write her telling her that she was not healed because of her lack of faith. Such letters hurt her very much. We aren't into the power of positive thinking, but what we are into is much better.

Some people use the illustration of having faith that a chair will support your weight allows you to confidently sit in it. Well what happens to your "faith" when the chair breaks? As we will see, sitting in a chair and riding in an airplane are not acts of faith, but rather acting upon our experiences in the world. As Christians we should never use the word faith for a worldly based event. We should say that we have confidence that the chair will support us based upon our prior experience, we have confidence that the airplane will safely get us to our destination; we have confidence that John will come to the meeting with the proper papers, etc.

So how do we find out what faith is? We should always first go to the Bible to see if It offers us a definition of any term or concept under consideration. In Heb 11:1 we indeed read a Biblical definition of faith: "Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen". This verse tells us that faith is a conviction that we have regarding something that allows us to be able to act on it as if it were assured of happening. But where does such assurance come from? A lot of people have the above scripture memorized but then when you ask the question about where does faith come from, you either get a "I don't really know" or somebody saying that it comes from within with the implication that faith is something we develop ourselves.

Now let us go to the Bible and see if It tells us where faith comes from. Heb 12:2 says "...Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith". And Rom 12:3 says " ... God has allotted to each a measure of faith.” These two verses clearly tell us that faith is not something that we do or a presence of mind that we develop, but that faith is a gift from God. Rom 10:17 says " ... faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of Christ." So faith is a gift from God that we receive from the word of Christ, which in this dispensation we get from the Bible rather than from a burning bush. So in His time He will allot faith to us as needed from the word of the Bible. In 2 Cor 10:15 we see that faith can grow, so as we study the Bible God can add to our faith.

Rom 5:1 says, " ... justified by faith" and Rom 4:5 says, " ... his faith is counted as righteousness". We clearly see from these verses that faith is not of our doing for that would be a works-based salvation and we know from Eph 2:8, 9 that salvation is surely not from works. However Eph 2:8 says something else that I never hear proclaimed and that is "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.” In Eph 2:8 the "it" refers back to faith, which is consistent with Rom 12:3 and the other scriptures above and speakers very seldom talk about that. Faith is a gift from God. Rom 3:28 also says, " ... a man is justified by faith." We read in Rom 9:32 that Israel did not arrive at righteousness because they did not pursue righteous by faith but as though it were by works. If we must muster up our own faith then justification is by works and again we know that is not correct. We also see in Heb 12:2 that " ...Jesus is the author and perfecter of faith." which fits in nicely with what we have already seen. Jesus is not only the author -- the originator of faith --; He is also the one who perfects it in us.

So we see that faith is a free gift from God and comes to us at our salvation (Rom 5:1 and Rom 4:5). In Acts 14:27 we read that Jesus had opened a door of faith to the Gentiles meaning that salvation was now freely available to all through Christ. In Acts 17:31 we read " ... having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead." The underlined two words come from the same Greek word that is elsewhere interpreted as faith but in a different tense. Thus it is like a verb and could read " ... having faithed to all men ...” When God gives faith to people, He faiths to us the absoluteness of the truth of Christ.

Rom 9:30-32 tells us that righteousness is by faith. Rom 10:6-10 again tells us that the origin of righteousness is faith, and since all Christians should say that salvation is not by works then we must also say that faith is not by our works lest we should boast. Matt 21:21 is an oft-quoted scripture but read it carefully. It says that if we have faith and doubt not then everything that we ask in prayer, believing, we will receive. How do we get what we pray for? First it has to be based on faith and we have seen the origin of faith is God and not us. So first God has to tell us something will come to pass. Then we act on that faith with a believing heart and we can do so without doubt for God has said so, then the event will come to pass. This type of input is in seen in the Old Testament when God first told His people that the battle had been won, and all they had to do was act it out. I do not mean that God talks to us today apart from the Bible. We are in a different dispensation. The revelation from God is complete with Revelation so do not expect to hear some voice telling you that you are going to get that particular job. God does reveal in His Word all that we need to know to be able to ask according to His will. Please see my article on prayer: Prayer

 

The Bible says:

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Pro 26:4 KJV

Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. Pro 26:5 KJV


Consider who you are communicating with and apply these verses as needed.

 

The above scripture also contrasts faith and belief. Thus faith is not the same as belief. But we must have faith and believe so what does this mean? It means that we must be firmly rooted in our faith. Having faith means that God has given us His insight into something and we are not to doubt it but believe that this faith is of God. Again I must state that this insight comes from the Bible’s revelation of the character of God and not from any other source. We are not to be blown about like a leaf in the wind, getting some faith from God and then getting it mixed up with something else like New Age philosophy or something else. Sometimes we want something so badly for ourselves that it is very difficult for us to believe that God does not want it for us also. So when the faith comes from God about that situation, we don't want to believe it. But if we have faith and believe, we will receive. This means that we will be perfectly aligned with the will of God and not with our will. It is easy to get cause and effect mixed up and that is what happens with a lot of people regarding faith and belief. We can believe because we have faith that came from God. Without faith from God, we cannot believe. Faith is the cause and believe is the effect. A great definition of faith is the empowering of God. God empowers us to believe, trust, repent, hope, etc.

Can our faith be increased? Remember Heb 12:2 says "...Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith" so Jesus will perfect our faith in the process of sanctification. The disciples asked, as is reported in Luke 17:5, for their faith to be increased and Jesus answered them by telling a parable in which the interpretation is that they are to serve Him while He is here. In essence He tells them that they have no faith yet in the comparison with the mustard seed. We read in Heb 11 about the great people of faith in the Old Testament. All of them were saved by faith from God that the Savior would come, or in the context of a future Messiah. But after the resurrection God can give faith in the context of Christ having been crucified and resurrected and our faith can grow as we saw in 2Cor 10:15 and Heb 12:2. But always remember "You can't be what you can be until you be what you are". Some are given more faith than others as told us in Rom 14:1 and since such comes from God (Rom 12:3) don't try to second guess God for He had His reasons for giving more faith to some than to others. We shall each have to give an account of ourselves to God (Rom 14:12) and "to whom much is given, much is expected (Luke 12:48). Our increase in faith will come at God's timing and not by our works or at our insistence.

Rom 12:6-8 commands us to exercise our gifts according to the grace given us. We are told that if one of our gifts is prophecy then we exercise it according to the proportion of our faith. No other gift exercise is done according to the proportion of our faith. What is prophecy? It is speaking forth the word of God (not the foretelling of events) and how can we do that ourselves? We can only prophesy what God has spoken and so we can only prophecy with faith from God. All gifts are, of course, from God. God gives some the gift of giving and then they are to give with liberality. God gives some the gift of mercy and they are to exercise mercy cheerfully. God gives some the gift of leading and they are to lead with diligence. But prophecy is done according to the proportion of our faith. Thus God gives the gift of faith to all who are saved and to some He gives more, and they are to prophesy to others. Prophecy is the acting out of faith to others and we then see why Paul said to desire the gift of prophecy more than others (1Cor 14:1-3) because the more faith we have the more we know about God and His ways. That is our goal in life: to know more about God and to grow closer to Him. So faith involves knowing God and His will and in prophecy we inform other Christians of this knowledge of God, which He has given us. In this manner the whole church is edified.

Now look at 1 Tim 1:18-20. Once "in the faith" (another phrase for having salvation and beginning sanctification) we have a fearsome responsibility toward God. Now we represent Him to the world and although we are free and can act irresponsibly in the world, we will suffer the consequences. We can be shipwrecked in regard to our faith. This says that due to our actions, which go counter to the faith that we have from God, we get into big trouble. This does not say that all calamities that come to a Christian is because of something he has done that is counter to his faith. But it does say that this can happen and if trouble comes to us we should certainly ask God and ourselves if we have done something counter to our faith. 1 Tim 6:10 tells us another reason why some Christians have trouble. The love of money can become a desire to the extent that we can wander away from the direction that faith gives us with fearful results in our life. There are many stumbling blocks in the world. My number one rule of walking in the world is "Don't be where you aren't supposed to be". The number two rule is “If you find yourself where you know you should not be, then ‘feet don’t fail me now!’ Look for the exit sign.”

We can also stray away from the faith by becoming too caught up in the search for knowledge rather than for the wisdom, which increases our faith. 1 Tim 6:20-21 speaks of this and we see much of that happening today as so many theologians have become caught up with their pride of intelligence and understanding and so many false theologies have been surfacing lately.

When is our faith completed? Eph 4:11-16 tells us that God gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers in order to build up the body of Christ until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man. This is talking about what we call sanctification. God provides justification by faith, sanctification by faith, and finally glorification. When we stand before Him in our glorification (Luke 21:36), then will our faith be finally completed or fulfilled.

Faith is the enabling power of God. I really like this as a working definition for it totally eliminates a man-based origin and applies well to all of the above. We then see that

Justification is by the enabling power of God.
Sanctification is by the enabling power of God.
Glorification is by the enabling power of God.
God gives to each a measure of the enabling power of God. (Rom 12:3 paraphrased)

http://livingtheology.com/Faith.htm

Someone else said in a recent thread, that most on this board were pastors, and they are due respect. However, why is it that a layman so many times can theologically shellac a pastor when it comes to interpretation of Scripture?? Come on, this is their profession, and most have had advanced training in seminary. If I had repaired networks and electronics like some interpret Scripture, I would have been fired the first week.

Icon is a self made champion of the Bible, and runs circles around most all "pastors."

 

That may or may not be true. The school label proves nothing. After doing much observing of the threads, it is my conclusion that you are 90% responsible for the name calling and division that goes on. Most posters get their points across without the personal attacks.

 

DHK,

You caught me totally off guard with this post about Strong. So, I have attempted to "google" and came up with nothing.

However this paragraph from Wikipedia gives a perspective on the broad respect he had in his work with languages.

Therefore, unless you can show me some documentation of his "Calvinistic" tendencies and view, I would rather consider him schooled in Methodism and held no specific view other than that of what the original languages brought to clarifying the Word of God.

Here is the paragraph from Wikipedia:

Mr. Strong was invited by Dr. Philip Schaff to join the Old Testament Company of the American committee of the English Revised Version of the Bible, and worked within that company in preparing both the English and the eventual American revision of the Bible, the American version of which became known as the American Standard Version 1901. The American Revision Committee began work in 1871 and continued to work until 1901. Notable scholars of the day who worked on these two translations with Mr. Strong include FHA Scrivener (who also edited the AV to form the first Cambridge Paragraph Bible, and whose recension of the AV is considered to be the authoritative text), Princeton theologian Charles Hodge, Philip Schaff, F.J.A. Hort and B.F. Westcott (the eponymous Westcott and Hort), W.L. Alexander, A.B. Davidson, S.R. Driver, Joseph Lightfoot, Samuel Wilberforce, Henry Alford, S.P. Tregelles, J. Henry Thayer, and Ezra Abbot. In all, one hundred and one scholars on both sides of the Atlantic worked upon this historic revision. The sources for this paragraph are from Revised New Testament and History of Revision, Authorized Version 1881. Hubbard Brothers, Publishers; and The Ancestry of our English Bible, by Ira Maurice Price, Harper and Brothers, Third Revised Edition, 1956. The first of these books asserts that Mr. Strong graduated from Wesleyan University in 1844, in its brief biography of him.
​

Please show me what documentation you have of Strong's view being Calvinistic.

 

saturneptune has given the BB one of the most complete posts on faith that I have read. It is from here: Faith

Perhaps this can be discussed in another thread that deals directly with the word Faith, but unless someone has shown this work as invalid by Scripture, it seems to present an extremely clear foundational work of exactly what faith is and how it is used in the Scriptures.

Very Good read.

 

Is Faith A Gift From God? Apologetics Press

Is Faith a Gift from God?

by Eric Lyons, M.Min.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9, emp. added).
For centuries, Bible commentators have differed on the precise reference of the pronoun “that” in Ephesians 2:8. Does “that” (touto) refer to faith, as many have stated (e.g., Augustine, Chrysostom, Westcott, Lenski, etc.), or, does “that” refer to salvation from sin? Is faith “the gift of God,” or is this gift salvation by grace through faith?

Admittedly, from a cursory reading of Ephesians 2:8, it may appear that the relative pronoun that has faith as its grammatical antecedent. Those who believe that faith is a gift (i.e., miraculous imposition) from God, often point out that in this verse “faith” is the nearest antecedent of “that” (“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God”). However, when one examines Ephesians 2:8 in the language in which it was written originally (Greek), he finds that the pronoun that (touto) is neuter in gender, while the word faith (pistis) is feminine. Since the general rule in Greek grammar is for the gender and number of a relative pronoun to be the same as its antecedent (Mounce, 1993, p. 111), then some extenuating linguistic circumstance, special idiomatic use, or other mitigating factor would need to be demonstrated to justify linking “that” to “faith.” If such reasonable justification cannot be made, then one is compelled to continue studying the passage in order to know assuredly what “that” gift of God is.

When no clear antecedent is found within a text, Greek scholar William Mounce wisely recommends that the Bible student study the context of the passage in question in order to help determine to what a relative pronoun (like “that”) is referring (1993, p. 111). The overall context of the first three chapters of Ephesians is man’s salvation found in Christ.

“In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (1:7).
The heavenly “inheritance” is found in Christ (1:11).
After believing in the good news of salvation through Christ, the Ephesians were “sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise” (1:13).
Sinners are made “alive with Christ” and saved “by grace” (2:5).
Sinners are brought near to God “by the blood of Christ” (2:13).
Paul became a servant of Christ “according to the gift of the grace of God…by the effective working of His power” (3:7).
Not only is the theme of salvation the overall context of the first three chapters of Ephesians, but the immediate context of Ephesians 2:8-9 is of salvation, not of faith. These two verses thoroughly document how a person is saved, not how a person believes.

Salvation is by grace.
Salvation is through faith.
Salvation is not of yourselves.
Salvation is the gift of God.
Salvation is not of works.
Paul was not giving an exposition on faith in his letter to the Ephesians. Salvation was his focus. Faith is mentioned as the mode by which salvation is accepted. Salvation is through faith. Just as water is received into a house in twenty-first-century America through a pipeline, a sinner receives salvation through obedient faith. The main focus of Paul’s message in Ephesians 2:8-9 was salvation (the living “water that springs up into everlasting life”—cf. John 4:14), not the mode of salvation.

Faith is not a direct gift from God given to some but not others. Rather, as Paul wrote to the church at Rome, “faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God” (Romans 10:17). Faith in Christ as the Son of God is only found in those who have first heard the Word of God, and then believed (cf. John 20:31).

REFERENCES

Mounce, William D. (1993), Basics of Biblical Greek (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan).

 

F. The Gift of God

Since touto refers to the previous phrase te gar chariti este sesosmenoi dia tes pisteos (“for by grace you have been saved through faith”), Theou to doron (“the gift of God”) is salvation. God gives everlasting life, by grace, to the one who believes in Christ. Theou (“of God”) is placed first here for emphasis and to create a contrast with ouk ex hymon (“not of yourselves”).[32] Grace is not a gift, it is the basis of the gift.[33] Faith is not a gift, it is the means by which the gift is received. Salvation is the gift. Hoehner writes: “This salvation does not have its source in man (it is ‘not from yourselves’), but rather, its source is God’s grace, for ‘it is the gift of God.”[34]

Scripture does not seem to support the idea that faith is a gift from God. The Bible simply calls upon people to believe. One example is in Romans 4. Here Paul cites Abraham as one who was declared righteous by God on the basis of faith and not works (4:1-3). In verse five Paul writes, “But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness” (emphasis added). The personal faith of the one who does not work but only believes is what results in justification. There is no intimation that this faith is anything other than his own personal faith.

Another example is in John 11. In verses 25-26, Jesus addresses Martha and says, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?” In 11:27, Martha responds: by saying, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.” In the interplay of the words of Jesus and Martha there is not the slightest hint that her faith is anything but her own conviction concerning the words of Jesus. There is a simple response of “Yes … I believe” to a simple question, “Do you believe this?”

The fact that faith is a personal response on the part of people must be balanced with the fact that God is sovereign. The Bible clearly teaches that God convicts men of their need for salvation:

Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven (Matt 16:17).[35]

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up the last day (John 6:44).

Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father (John 6:65).

And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged (John 16: 8-11).

But as has been shown, the Bible also clearly exhorts individuals to believe. The fact that God convicts people of their need of a Savior and reveals to them the truth concerning Christ is not the same thing as saying that He gives them their faith. In commenting on Eph 2:8, Chafer writes:

The point in the verse is that salvation is by grace in its totality…Though it is true that faith on the part of an unsaved person would be impossible apart from divine help, it nevertheless is a human decision, however difficult it may be to separate the human work from the divine work. The problem with making faith a particular gift from God is that it removes from man any responsibility to believe and leaves it entirely in the hands of God. If this were true it would be useless to exhort men to believe inasmuch as they could not do so.[36]

The relationship between the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man is an age-old question and one that is a paradox from a human point of view. God convicts people of their need to be justified. He discloses to them the truth of the person of Christ. But “the convicting work of the Spirit in itself does not assure salvation.”[37] Individuals must believe. Ephesians 2:8 simply states that when a person believes in Jesus Christ, he receives the free gift of salvation.

Eadie concludes:

Men are saved by grace. . . and that salvation which has its origin in grace is not won from God, nor is it wrung from Him; “His is the gift.” Look at salvation in its origin—it is “by grace.” Look at it in its reception—it is “through faith.” Look at it in its manner of conferment—it is a “gift.” For faith, though an indispensable instrument does not merit salvation as a reward; and grace operating only through faith, does not suit itself to congruous worth, nor single it out as its sole recipient. Salvation, in its broadest sense, is God’s gift.[38]

IV. Conclusion

Ephesians 2:8 is a magnificent statement concerning the eternal salvation which is graciously provided by God through the medium of faith in Jesus Christ. Faith is not a divine gift from God. Faith is a personal conviction which a person exercises when he or she encounters Jesus the Christ. The clear exhortation from Paul and the other NT writers is for people to believe. There is no biblical data to warrant the belief that faith itself is given by God. Robertson correctly concludes, ‘“Grace’ is God’s part, ‘faith’ ours.”[39] God provides the free gift of salvation on the basis of His grace. People must receive the free gift of salvation by means of faith. Such is the clear and distinct message of Eph 2:8.

http://www.faithalone.org/journal/1994i/J12-94c.htm

 

Specifically he studied under Theodore Beza long after Calvin had died.

 

And what was Theodore Beza's theology! drumroll......................:wavey:

 

It is my conclusion that RIPPONWV really isn't RIPPONWV. No new poster would admit to following so many of my posts and have such an obsession with accusing me of being "90% responsible" for how others react.

Secondly, if your logic were consistent, you would notice that Rippon implied to DHK that the LABEL of Strong's college proves that Strong couldn't have been a Calvinist. What I showed was that was an erroneous assumption because Jacobus Arminius graduated from a Calvinist School the was founded BY JOHN CALVIN HIMSELF and ended up a Non Calvinist that opposed Calvinism on a large majority of Calvin's theology.

The fact that you claimed "which may or may not be true" shows your ignorance of the history. You could have done a simple search to find out where Arminius graduated from instead of sticking your foot in your mouth by basing a rebuttal off of something you admitted you weren't sure of.:tonofbricks:

 

I will address his post later. It is full of loopholes as is the site he quotes from. Here are some things about the author you should know:

His forte is science, especially Chemistry, not theology. He has many mistakes in his article on faith.

 

The truth is never shameful.
What is shameful is that you cannot refute the truth because it is the truth, therefore you call the truth shameful; now that is shameful indeed!