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  #91  
Old 09-29-2009, 06:29 AM
ShotGunWillie ShotGunWillie is offline
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Originally Posted by Marcia View Post
I hope you are not serious! Joyce Meyer is Word of Faith.
Well, it was either her or Joel Osteen, I decided not to be that tacky
  #92  
Old 09-29-2009, 12:53 PM
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How do we use God's own Word to limit Him? Does He not speak His heart? Is not the Scriptures God's own word to us? Scripture is clear, it is God who limits the church - not the other way around.

I have read the other posts that been added since I made my comment. So, I am responding those comments as well. I will give you the most appropriate example I know. On the basis of scripture (among other things), the Pharisees claimed that Jesus was not, and could not be, God's Messiah. They had decided, again, on the basis of scripture, what God's Messiah would be like, and they would accept no other possibilities. Jesus did not fit their expectations, so he could not be the Messiah.

When we assume that God's revelation has ended with that recorded in scripture, then we are assuming a level of knowledge to which we are not entitled. That is how we can attempt to limit God. What we are actually doing is preventing others from experiencing God to the fullest. It is not a question of God speaking God's heart to us. It is a question of whether we are paying attention. It is not a question of whether the scriptures are God's word. It's a question of whether they are God's only word or God's final word to us. When we run to the scriptures for answers to every problem we encounter, we run the risk of avoiding dealing with the problem directly. We may be applying a solution that may not be appropriate. Jesus was accused of breaking many sabbath and dietary laws. According to the Pharisees, he was a sinner, but we don't see it that way. I see this as being analogous to the issue of women pastors.

When my church was looking for a new pastor a couple of years ago, we considered several women candidates. Also, Molly Marshall was one of the supply preachers. We had some other women also. Ms. Marshall was very impressive as Crabtownboy has already mentioned. The others were a mixed bag, some good, some not so good. One was particularly bad. At least I guess she was. I couldn't understand a word she said. Our search committee, of which my daughter was a member, settled on a man who had more experience. He has been the right person to be our pastor.

Tim Reynolds
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"If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it." --Stephen Colbert

Surely I am too stupid to be human; I do not have human understanding.
I have not learned wisdom, nor have I knowledge of the holy ones. (Proverbs 30.2-3, NRSV)
  #93  
Old 09-29-2009, 01:10 PM
matt wade matt wade is offline
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Originally Posted by Timsings View Post
When we run to the scriptures for answers to every problem we encounter, we run the risk of avoiding dealing with the problem directly.
Yeah...we wouldn't want to actually seek out answers in God's Word. Instead, we can come up with answers based upon our feelings, culture, and what makes us and others feel good.
  #94  
Old 09-29-2009, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Timsings View Post
I have read the other posts that been added since I made my comment. So, I am responding those comments as well. I will give you the most appropriate example I know. On the basis of scripture (among other things), the Pharisees claimed that Jesus was not, and could not be, God's Messiah. They had decided, again, on the basis of scripture, what God's Messiah would be like, and they would accept no other possibilities. Jesus did not fit their expectations, so he could not be the Messiah.

When we assume that God's revelation has ended with that recorded in scripture, then we are assuming a level of knowledge to which we are not entitled. That is how we can attempt to limit God. What we are actually doing is preventing others from experiencing God to the fullest. It is not a question of God speaking God's heart to us. It is a question of whether we are paying attention. It is not a question of whether the scriptures are God's word. It's a question of whether they are God's only word or God's final word to us. When we run to the scriptures for answers to every problem we encounter, we run the risk of avoiding dealing with the problem directly. We may be applying a solution that may not be appropriate. Jesus was accused of breaking many sabbath and dietary laws. According to the Pharisees, he was a sinner, but we don't see it that way. I see this as being analogous to the issue of women pastors.

When my church was looking for a new pastor a couple of years ago, we considered several women candidates. Also, Molly Marshall was one of the supply preachers. We had some other women also. Ms. Marshall was very impressive as Crabtownboy has already mentioned. The others were a mixed bag, some good, some not so good. One was particularly bad. At least I guess she was. I couldn't understand a word she said. Our search committee, of which my daughter was a member, settled on a man who had more experience. He has been the right person to be our pastor.

Tim Reynolds
So, in other words, we can ignore clear teaching of Scripture if we feel that God has given us a "new revelation"? Wow. I find the bolded above so dangerous and so scary for a Christian to be thinking. This is the thinking of cults - is it now creeping into the church?
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  #95  
Old 09-29-2009, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Timsings View Post
I have read the other posts that been added since I made my comment. So, I am responding those comments as well. I will give you the most appropriate example I know. On the basis of scripture (among other things), the Pharisees claimed that Jesus was not, and could not be, God's Messiah. They had decided, again, on the basis of scripture, what God's Messiah would be like, and they would accept no other possibilities. Jesus did not fit their expectations, so he could not be the Messiah.

When we assume that God's revelation has ended with that recorded in scripture, then we are assuming a level of knowledge to which we are not entitled. That is how we can attempt to limit God. What we are actually doing is preventing others from experiencing God to the fullest. It is not a question of God speaking God's heart to us. It is a question of whether we are paying attention. It is not a question of whether the scriptures are God's word. It's a question of whether they are God's only word or God's final word to us. When we run to the scriptures for answers to every problem we encounter, we run the risk of avoiding dealing with the problem directly. We may be applying a solution that may not be appropriate. Jesus was accused of breaking many sabbath and dietary laws. According to the Pharisees, he was a sinner, but we don't see it that way. I see this as being analogous to the issue of women pastors.

When my church was looking for a new pastor a couple of years ago, we considered several women candidates. Also, Molly Marshall was one of the supply preachers. We had some other women also. Ms. Marshall was very impressive as Crabtownboy has already mentioned. The others were a mixed bag, some good, some not so good. One was particularly bad. At least I guess she was. I couldn't understand a word she said. Our search committee, of which my daughter was a member, settled on a man who had more experience. He has been the right person to be our pastor.

Tim Reynolds
When we spend to much time outside of scripture this is the completely ignorant ideology we get. It is clear you do not understand the conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees nor do you understand scripture.

Scripture is completely sufficient for all matters of faith and practice and daily living. Anything else is heresy
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  #96  
Old 09-29-2009, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by annsni View Post
So, in other words, we can ignore clear teaching of Scripture if we feel that God has given us a "new revelation"? Wow. I find the bolded above so dangerous and so scary for a Christian to be thinking. This is the thinking of cults - is it now creeping into the church?
I agree that it is scary and dangerous, and it should be. The Pharisees thought they had "clear teaching from scripture" about Jesus. They are the prototype for what we shouldn't be doing. Their example should lead us right back to Gamaliel's warning to the Sanhedrin and to the comment "by their fruits shall ye know them." I guess my point is that being baptist is not easy. You can't settle for easy answers, and you can't jump to easy conclusions. You have to trust in the leading of the Holy Spirit, but you can't assume that it is going to be easily apparent. There is a sense that God's appearing to Abram was new revelation. The same could be said for Moses and the burning bush and the whole story of the exodus. Remember that many of the Israelites wished that they had stayed in Egypt in spite of all the plagues and acts of power that God did to show them that they would be taken care of. Also, it is likely that Jesus and his followers were viewed as something like a cult by many in the Jewish religious establishment. So it is with women pastors just as with men. Some will be very good, and it will be hard to doubt their calling. Some will be very bad, and it will be hard to affirm their calling. Most will be somewhere in the middle. For all it will between them and God whether or not they carry out their calling.

Tim Reynolds
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"If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it." --Stephen Colbert

Surely I am too stupid to be human; I do not have human understanding.
I have not learned wisdom, nor have I knowledge of the holy ones. (Proverbs 30.2-3, NRSV)
  #97  
Old 09-29-2009, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Revmitchell View Post
When we spend to much time outside of scripture this is the completely ignorant ideology we get. It is clear you do not understand the conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees nor do you understand scripture.

Scripture is completely sufficient for all matters of faith and practice and daily living. Anything else is heresy

Thanks, Rev. It is a not totally unexpected honor to have you assign me to the heretic bench. To paraphrase one of your earlier posts to me, you have no idea how much time I spend inside or outside of scripture. Also, I see more ideology in your posts and those of your admirers. And, as for my being "completely ignorant", I refer you to the passage from Proverbs in my signature. It's possible that we may have found something that we agree on. If that is the case, then the BB may be about to implode.

Tim Reynolds
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"If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it." --Stephen Colbert

Surely I am too stupid to be human; I do not have human understanding.
I have not learned wisdom, nor have I knowledge of the holy ones. (Proverbs 30.2-3, NRSV)
  #98  
Old 09-29-2009, 03:39 PM
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Crabtownboy Crabtownboy is online now
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Originally Posted by annsni View Post
So, in other words, we can ignore clear teaching of Scripture if we feel that God has given us a "new revelation"? Wow. I find the bolded above so dangerous and so scary for a Christian to be thinking. This is the thinking of cults - is it now creeping into the church?
I am not sure what is meant by new revelation. I do know that many preachers, especially southern preachers, defended salvery using scripture. Paul did not condemn it. So, I am wondering, was it a new revelation when pastors and others began denouncing slavery and favoring it abolishment? Just curious where something like this fits into this thread.
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  #99  
Old 09-29-2009, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Crabtownboy View Post
.................. I do know that many preachers, especially southern preachers, defended salvery using scripture.........
I like SALVE myself, works really good on cuts and things!
  #100  
Old 09-29-2009, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Baptist4life View Post
I like SALVE myself, works really good on cuts and things!
Sometimes I have to use it after I've spent too much time on the BB.

Tim Reynolds
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"If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it." --Stephen Colbert

Surely I am too stupid to be human; I do not have human understanding.
I have not learned wisdom, nor have I knowledge of the holy ones. (Proverbs 30.2-3, NRSV)
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