Sickening and troubling verse.

Leave it to Magnetic Poles to call the word of God "sickening".

 

Not to get off the subject, but you might want to check out William Forstchen's book, "One Second After", which describes how people can sink to these things when food is cut off, even for a brief time.

 

:thumbsup: Right on Grasshopper.......


It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God....

 

Thanks! I can't remember the title of the book I read, it was back in High School, and that was a looooong time ago.

 

Alright, I will be nice to you.
Never in any of my posts did I say that only the Jews or the elect have the ability to hear, understand and respond positively to God, before regeneration (added to complete the phrase).

I have stated in some of my posts, repeatedly, loooooooonggg before you came to this board, and once when you were already here, that all men are born at enmity with their Creator, spiritually dead and unresponsive to the things of the Spirit until the Spirit regenerates them, if they are among those whom Christ already redeemed with His blood at the cross, in eternity past as the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world, and in time, at the cross of Calvary.

You got that ?
All, TODOs, tout les hommes, kul, are at enmity.
However, God's own, when regenerated, after the New Birth, are under obligation to submit themselves to the rulership of God, but some don't, and principles on how God deals with His people are written all over the Bible from the Old Testament to the New, and the verses in question are but one of them.

What you do not want to do is to apply them to all men without discrimination because God did not redeem all mankind. He saved His people, and them only.

For those who are not God's people, they have already been judged at the cross, along with Satan, and they are simply awaiting the promulgation of their sentences, which is to happen at the Great White Throne (Revelation 20), although many are not aware of it, and because of their religions and/or lack of it, are being continously deceived by Satan.

 

That was a nice response. Thank you.

Now, I am not saying I agree with you, I don't. But at least I understand your viewpoint a little better.

I see here that many Cals/DoGs see regeneration as the first step in salvation, but not salvation itself. Most non-Cals like myself believe regeneration to be born again, saved. We believe a person is regenerated after believing.

But here is the question I pose to you and others, why is God unable to communicate to the unregenerate?

Communication necessarily involves two parties. If I speak only English and approach someone who only speaks Spanish, we are both unable to communicate.

If that other fellow knows English as well as Spanish, he may understand my responses, but unless he speaks to me in English we still cannot communicate.

So why can't God communicate with the unregenerate? Your doctrine limits God's power in my opinion.

 

God is able to communicate with whomsoever He wants to. The problem is many don't understand the difference between the external call and the internal call. The bible presents the internal call as always efficacious, but the external call is resistable. Let favor be showed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousnes.

 

Because a sin was prophesied does not mean it was forced on mankind to perform.

As far as it not being appropriate for young children to read, I agree to a point. In history, kids are taught all about methods of torture. They're taught about what Hitler did to us. They read all about the practices of cannibalism and witchcraft, and we call it educational.

I think what you're experiencing is the result of a tender heart...one that hates violence and evil. That is to be applauded. Far too many people are desensitized to such things, and that is sick and wrong.

I'd love to figure out what is really going on with you and these thoughts. Do you even know? Are you sickened by the evilness of it all, or are you questioning the concept of a god who allows such things to happen? Both are concepts I have had to deal with and still occasionally think about.

 

That is circular reasoning. Those who came got the effectual call. Those who did not come got the general call. You are defining who got which call by whether they came or not.

I have explained this several times using the famous quotation of evolutionists. They speak of the "survival of the fittest".

Do the fittest always survive? Or did many young, fit people die in the earthquake in Haiti, while many older, unfit people survived because they were fortunate to be in a building that didn't collapse?

How about war? Do the fittest always survive? Or do many young fit people die, while older unfit people survive at home?

How about a flood? Does it only kill unfit people? What about a tornado, does it only kill unfit people? Car accidents? How about H1N1? The H1N1 flu virus was more dangerous to young people than older people, did you know that?

But the evolutionist will say the fittest survived.

Do you not now see how this is a fallacy in logic?

 

This is not a command from God, it is a statement from God about the condition that Israel would be in if they depart from the Law to serve the gods of the Canaanites. It may or may not be hyperbole, but by no means is God condoning such activity.

 

Oh, C'mon Aaron. Dont *dilly dally* around. Tell us what you REALLY think. :laugh:

 

War fare in the ancient world is an awful thing. When Jerusalem was sacked women ate their children because the Romans barracaded the city and did not allow anyone in or out so once the food supply ran out the only ones to eat were other people and that's what happened. Truelly awful. However, it was a reality of warfare in those days.

 

Nevermind.

 

This I can agree on completely! :thumbs:

 

That is not the case at all with Jerusalem in AD 70:

“...During the infighting inside the city walls, a stockpiled supply of dry food was intentionally burned by Jewish leaders to induce the defenders to fight against the siege instead of negotiating peace; as a result many city dwellers and soldiers died of starvation during the siege....”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish–Roman_War

For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith Jehovah; but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbor`s hand, and into the hand of his king; and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them. Zech 11:6

49 I came to cast fire upon the earth [the land]; and what do I desire, if it is already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
51 Think ye that I am come to give peace in the earth [the land]? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 for there shall be from henceforth five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 They shall be divided, father against son, and son against father; mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother; mother in law against her daughter in law, and daughter in law against her mother in law. Lu 12

From 'The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation', by Philip Mauro:
( http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=63301&page=9 )

See also: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthre...71#post1489071

 

More from Mauro:

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Heb 10:31

....... it is indeed a very sickening and troubling thing to incur His wrath.........

 

What gets me about us humans is that this violence happens, and we respond to it by making up more of it in the forms of violent movies, plays, and books, then pay to bring images of it right into our homes. That is SO weird! It's that type of thing that reminds me of how depraved and sick human beings are WITHOUT God and a set of moral absolutes. You have to admit that the morals laid out by the Christian faith are things we'd pretty much be at a loss without.

So why doesn't God, in his all powerful ability, stop some of the nastiness from happening? Why is it that my daughter was born with a heart defect, blind in one eye, and now we're looking at the possibility of her having a debilitating form of lupus?
Why was I raped when before I even entered first grade? What would an all powerful God allow this to happen?
Somewhere in Haiti, young children suffered long and excruciatingly painful deaths very recently and still lay about suffering without enough proper attention.
Young girls are sold to satisfy depraved men, and end up walking about filled with sexual diseases before they even hit their teens.

God has the power to stop this. He doesn't. Should I doubt his goodness? I don't anymore. I used too. However, I still question His methods at times, although after some years of dealing with such questioning, I can usually see how it's our ways, not his that are causing/have caused what I see and despise.

We ARE told that he can and does take the evil man puts into the world and turn it to good for those that love HIM.
I've seen that in action. How?

What good comes out of Anna's problems? My daughter has opened the eyes of more than a few physicians. We have come across people over the years who really needed someone to talk to, or whose child was having a heart surgery while mine was simply having her heart looked at.

So isn't God somehow exhibiting cruelty by not stopping this? Well, why should he? Does he owe us that? What caused her condition? I have to suspect that I've got some nasty genes. My mother was a heroine addict, and Anna is having a lot of the same health problems I do. My brothers and sisters...almost all of them have heart anomolies. I believe this is what was meant when it was said that sins are passed down from generation to generation. The sins of my mother affected me and now are affecting my children. Do I blame God for not forcing my mother to live right, or do I blame the sin of humans?

What good comes out of a child being raped or forced into prostitution? What about violently killed?
Usually none that I can see, except foundations get started and people become more aware of safety issues. In my case there was some good....Often I am extremely tuned into kids who have been abused, and try to reach out to them. I know what they're thinking and how they feel. That is a gift. It is rare that someone understands how much a couple simple words spoken to a severely abused child can positively affect them...they will cling to those words and carry them in their hearts all their lives.

I believe God created humans and then gave them the right to live their lives as they saw fit. He gave them the knowledge of what was right. It was rejected, and the decay of the earth and of the human body and mind followed right along. Look at any violent and wrong thing that happens on this earth and it is ALWAYS preceded by man's sin.

I look at my kids. Can I stop them from doing wrong? Sure! Of course it would require taking away their ability to think for themselves, keeping them in isolation, and never letting them completely understand the concept of freedom or sense of self.
That means my kids are going to make some wrong decisions. These decisions will cause them grief and suffering, and most likely will also cause some hurt and pain to others. Most likely it won't be on a massive scale, but it will be a miniature shadow of what happens when people do wrong things on a massive scale. Take the holocaust. The sin, pride, and refusal to base moral behavior on Christian morals had ghastly results.

It's bad. It's nasty. It's horrible.

But it isn't the end of the story. Keep reading.

:flower:

 

But since it is God's word, there is nothing shameful about it. And it was a prophecy of a consequence of great sin.

The OT often gives us a picture of the severe consequences of sin because man so easily rationalizes it and makes it less than what it is. And seeing these consequences and yet to know God's mercy through Jesus Christ gives us, hopefully, a greater appreciation of and thankfulness for God's mercy.

 

But just as we are upset at terrible things that happen to people, as believers, we should be equally upset and sickened by sin. God loves but He is righteous and cannot abide sin - any sin. It is only because of His mercy and grace that there is redemption through Jesus Christ - we do not deserve that.

The consequences of sin do not contradict God's love.