Featured Is Faith "requirement" to be saved by God?

Would you trust me that I believe it to be relative?

I will have a few more questions and thoughts but was trying to keep the posts shorter for clarity.

If any is interested they can answer or just keep on riding.

"Hey look kids, there's Big Ben," ...
Clark Griswold:

 

.........and the Paraliamint....:smilewinkgrin: by Clark W. Griswold

 

28 They said therefore unto him, What must we do, that we may work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. Jn 6

And this is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, even as he gave us commandment. 1 Jn 3:23

YOU don't hold to 'duty faith'? I know that you do.

I agree with the articulation given by JFB:

“3. For what saith the, Scripture? Abraham believed God, and it--his faith.
was counted to him for righteousness--( Genesis 15:6 ). Romish expositors and Arminian Protestants make this to mean that God accepted Abraham's act of believing as a substitute for complete obedience. But this is at variance with the whole spirit and letter of the apostle's teaching. Throughout this whole argument, faith is set in direct opposition to works, in the matter of justification--and even in Romans 4:4 Romans 4:5 . The meaning, therefore, cannot possibly be that the mere act of believing--which is as much a work as any other piece of commanded duty ( John 6:29 , 1 John 3:23 )--was counted to Abraham for all obedience. The meaning plainly is that Abraham believed in the promises which embraced Christ ( Genesis 12:3 , 15:5 , &c.), as we believe in Christ Himself; and in both cases, faith is merely the instrument that puts us in possession of the blessing gratuitously bestowed.”

Wouldn't you agree that their comment concerning 'Arminian Protestants' applies to you?

I agree there is a biblical contrast between doing something to earn favor with God and doing something that comes with no thought of recompense. Real, bona fide, acceptable, works [should] come as natural to His redeemed born from above children as a duck to water:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

These works come so natural to them that they oftentimes have no cognizance of performing them:

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, and fed thee? or athirst, and gave thee drink?
38 And when saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 And when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? Mt 25

Yea, it was the Samaritan who acted out of compassion (read agape from the circumcised heart) to help him who had fallen to the robbers; the priest and the Levite went to the other side of the road and walked on by. Yea, 'not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified'.

Once again, YOU don't hold to DUTY FAITH?

I don't understand how you come to your conclusion that faith is NOT a work when scripture shows that it is, and it's source is the same as works, the heart that has had the law written upon it.

Your perspective on faith requires that only those who have heard the gospel and made a profession are capable of good works. This is wrong. The Spirit where He wills doth blow, He is not confined or restrained to only where the gospel is preached. Not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. That's just as true now as it was then.

No, my quote from JFB above shows them soundly in agreement with me,”... believing--which is as much a work as any other piece of commanded duty...”.

You make faith to be your personal choice, your own will, and that's wrong. That is NOT biblical. This is the source of faith, and it is as Gill says, a gift of God:

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb 12:2

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: Ro 3:22

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
20 I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Gal 2

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Gal 3:22

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: Phil 3:9

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Rev 14:12

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:8

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Col 2:12 KJV

Gill on Col 2:12
“......through the faith of the operation of God; that is, it is through faith that saints see themselves buried and risen with Christ, to which the ordinance of baptism is greatly assisting, where there is true faith; for otherwise, without faith, this ordinance will be of no use to any such end and purpose; and it is not any faith that will avail, but that which is of God's operation; faith is not naturally in men, all men have it not; and those that have it, have it not of themselves, it is the gift of God; it is what be works in them, and by his power performs.....”

No, you misunderstand, as I pointed out with JFB.

OK, nothing new or shocking here, salvation is an ongoing affair, not a one time event. Regeneration i.e., the birth from above, on the other hand IS a one time event, and is one which man is totally passive in [Jn 1:13] just as he is with his physical birth.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1832301&postcount=45

See post #2 this thread.

Yea:

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: Ro 3:22

 

Abracadabra regeneration: follow the formula, repeat the incantation, and, SHAZAAM! PRESTO CHANGO! BORN AGAIN! IMMORTALITY ACHIEVED! ANYBODY CAN DO IT!

That about sums up what most hold to today.

 

Paul's contrast of faith vs works is in view of the intent to be justified by the works of the law.

James's connection of faith to works is in view of the law written on the heart from which both should come naturally.

17 Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself.
18 Yea, a man will say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith apart from thy works, and I by my works will show thee my faith. Jas 2

And Paul did mention both the connection and the contrast of the two:

......the doers of the law shall be justified, for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law Ro 2:14

......by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Gal 2:16

Striving to earn favor and doing good deeds that come naturally are two totally different things.

 

These individuals of v 12 that you say received Christ of their own free will are described in v 13 with a threefold denial of any participation on their part with being born of God.
Jn 1:12,13 sequence is exactly that given in Jn 3:21:

But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God.

God has already wrought within those that come to Christ.

 

Is there something within the context of this passage that connects it to the Malachi passage? What I see Christ saying here is “you can't hear because you don't belong to me”.

Show me more about this 'judicial hardening'.

 

Again Willis, Christ is saying, “you don't believe because you don't belong to me”.

 

Willis, this is no answer from you. The natural man (read unregenerate) considers the gospel as foolishness, he cannot receive Christ, he cannot know the things that are spiritually discerned because he has not been given the spirit which is from God. “It behoveth you to be born from above”. It is an absolute necessity.

 

Yet another no answer from you Willis. God shines in the hearts of His own that they may have the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ. “It behoveth you to be born from above”. It is an absolute necessity.

 

What's the matter Willis? You've certainly not been providing scripture for your 'no responses', just this rambling rhetoric.

Your Lord has made it very plain, "It behoveth you to be born from above". He has made it very plain that man is totally passive in this, “born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” I'd have trouble providing a scriptural refutation to those facts too, because there is none.

 

This is further evidence that the vast majority of people who oppose the DoG are horribly uninformed about what they claim to oppose.

Most Calvinists believe man is "dead in his trespasses and sins" until made alive by grace so that he can believe and be saved.

There is none that seeks after God. God must do something to this man who is dead spiritually so that he even has an interest in knowing God.

Once God awakens the dead spirit of a man THEN he can seek after God and find him through faith.

 

It blows my mind. You still insist dead people can do things.

Does a dead person thirst?

Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Mt 5:6

Fortunate indeed these are to have been made to feel their need for Him.

 

To use a scripture totally wrong which the writer was never trying to convey is pretty bad.

No one is good exactly, Jesus came to save sinners which I am the worste. No one seeks God that is right, that is why Jesus called His disciple's to seek them and make disciple's out of them to contiue to seek those who do not seek Him.

Looking at Paul and at his life he knew no one seeked God so he spent his life seeking them. Anyone can talk a good Paul, but living a good Paul living to be everything for eveyone so you might save them.

1 Corinthians 9:
Paul’s Use of His Freedom
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

 

Round and round we go, you know what I mean.

 

Your statement that I have highlighted in red is where non-Cals and Arminians have a problem with Calvinism.

How can a person be alive before he believes? Until you believe you are dead in your trespasses and sins. You cannot be both spiritually alive and spiritually dead at the same moment.

Regeneration is instant, but faith is not. It takes time to hear, understand, and believe the gospel. In your view a man must be made spiritually alive before he is even willing to hear the gospel, and he must be made spiritually alive before he can understand or believe the gospel.

Even if it only took you two minutes to hear, understand, and believe the gospel, for those two minutes until you believe you are still in your trespasses and sins.

So, in the Calvinist view a man can be spiritually alive and spiritually dead at the same time! This is impossible and contradicts all scripture.

Calvinism presents an impossible contradiction. It claims a man is regenerated and made spiritually alive before he hears, understands, and believes the gospel. It claims a man is spiritually alive before his sins are forgiven. This is impossible.

All scripture says a man must first believe before he has spiritual life.

Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Scripture ALWAYS shows a person must first believe before having life. Calvinism teaches the exact opposite of scripture, Calvinism teaches that a person must have life to believe. This is total error and absolutely unscriptural.

 

Next question from a different angle of approach, See post 98 which contained three questions that need an answer.

YLT Luke 23:46 {with comment from John 19:30 added in} and having cried with a loud voice, Jesus said, {it is finished} `Father, to Thy hands I commit my spirit;' and these things having said, he breathed forth the spirit.

Jesus was dead.

Is this the same Spirit of Life that fertilized the egg within the virgin Mary that divided and divided and grew until she brought forth the man child Jesus? His Spirit returned to God and Jesus died.

How long was Jesus dead?

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Why did Jesus have to go away before the Comforter could come to them? That is they could receive the Spirit.
What all had to take place before the Comforter could be given to them?

Four more questions.

Amy if you are reading you are getting behind and will never get off the merry go round.

 

Who says that regeneration and the beginning of faith cannot be simultaneous? The issue is which is the cause and which is the effect.

 

Cause and effect.



A. KJV Phil. 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

If Jesus the sinless Son of God had not done that in bold would there have been any regeneration?

B. KJV Gal. 3:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)

If that in bold had not taken place, would there have been any grace?

KJV 1 Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam all die. If (A) above had not taken place all men upon dying would be dead forever.
KJV 1 Cor. 12:22 even so in Christ shall all be made alive. If (B) above had not taken place there would not have been any, hope of eternal life to be an heir or joint heir with Christ of; See Titus 3:7 and Romans 8:17

For by grace through the faith ye are saved; not by works nor by your faith which would be a work.

Your salvation will be totally the gift of God the Father through Jesus Christ out Lord and His, the Father's Son.

2 Tim. 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

 

Not all Calvinist believe in regeneration before faith, there is some who think it be ridiculous, life before the word of life is ridiculous. We all are different and can see the same things differently. We who are in Christ can't be deceived, because Christ will not deceive us.

We can't trust the natural man the carnal mind doth not understand Spiritual things.

This is why we cannot lean on our own understand but trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I pray every day that I or God do not harden my heart where He will not mold it by His word into who He wants me to be.