Debate for "Beliefs on Baptism."

I vote for the second option - and agree that Baptism is not what saves -- but it is "the obedience of the gospel" as Paul calls it - the "fruit of salvation" as Christ calls it in Matt 7.

And those who reject obedience right at the start - as John says in 1John 2 have lied about who they claim to truly know.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Darron I thnk before one can can look at baptism and decide what impact it has on salvation if any at all there needs to be an understanding of what Biblical salvation is.

With that being said I do not think the Bible teaches that baptism has any impact at all on a person's eternal (spiritual) salvation. However it does impact ones salvation for the kingdom or as the Bible describes it the salvation of the soul.

 

There's another view not listed.

Baptism is a covenental act. This view is held by Reformed tradition.

 

Not "by Reformed tradition", but a Reformed understanding of the Scriptures (covenant theology). TP -- be careful, if you use the word "tradition" everyone thinks you are a Romanist.

This belief is held by all reformed denominations, including Presbyterians, Lutherans, Dutch Reform, Reform Christians. I'm not sure about Episcopalians and Anglicans on this though.

 

Thanks, FoS; I was grasping for the right phrase and couldn't get there.

I think that Episcopalians and Aglicans view baptism in the same light as the Roman Catholic Church.

 

I checked the US Episcopal website and their view is a lot more reformed than I thought. See http://www.episcopalchurch.org/visitors_11674_ENG_HTM.htm for more information.

 

The Church of England (Anglicans) have differing views on the meaning of baptism. Traditionally, they believed that infant baptism washed away original sin, and hence the reason for immediate baptism, within days of being born. Others follow the Reformed concept of covenant theology, where it aligns with circumcision, a covenant promise to bring up the child in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, leading to Confirmation, when the novitiate is brought to a saving realization of the Christ.

Whilst the Church of England was born out of the RC Church, it was definitely a separate assemblage of evangelical and fundamental beliefs. I was raised in such a church and came to a realization of the Christ and salvation within the Church of England. I became a Baptist by conviction at a later date.

Cheers,

Jim

 

There were no best options. They were all wrong and what I said is not even close to option three. You claim to have started that poll to correct mischaracterizing the beliefs of the baptists and then you mischaracterize the Biblical position.

 

None apply
Point 5:
Baptism by the Holy Spirit occurs at the time of conversion. Water has absolutely nothing to do with it today. The Lords words Acts 1:5

But for the next year, the apostles continue to baptize and greatly expand the Church, and Christ stands ready to come back to rule and reign. But after that year is up, at the conclusion of the stoning of Stephen, Acts7: 55 the Lord sits down at the Father's right hand, because Israel has ultimately rejected their Messiah. At this point the new "Age of Grace" previously unknown except by the Father, is begun. And these old sign gifts begin to fade away completely. See Acts 11:14. These folks are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and had not been baptized. Though Peter immediately baptizes them, according to his tradition.

Paul tells us, he is glad he baptized only a few.

The whole Baptist religious movement is based upon Israelis promised Kingdom gospel, which has been set-aside for these last 2,000 years, and will be taken up again in the millennial Reign of Christ. We, the members of the Body of Christ, will have been raptured by this time.

 

Hill Climber can you expound on what you mean by this quote?

 

Wouldn't the Lutheran position mirror the other reformed denomations?

 

Chemnitz:
"it is described in the Letter to the Romans in Baptism we are joined to Christ in his death and resurrection by means of Baptism."

GE:
It is described there, the 'baptism' namely, of Christ through death and resurrection, and how we (through faith), "with Him" through and in, HIS, death and resurrection, are 'co-buried', 'co-raised', and co-baptised. It's ALL, Christ's, and we in Him and through Him. There is no word there (Ro6) of water-baptism or of 'our', baptism. Much the same is said in Colossians 2.

 

GE:
I 'hold' the 'Reformed' view (or 'tradition') of salvation; yet I am a-baptismal (like in a-millennialist). In other words, I don't believe in water-baptism. I believe water-baptism was a sign of Apostleship and Apostolic Authority, meant for those 'twelve' only

 

Option 1 doesn't apply, as it is not commanded today. It is a gift given to each believer at conversion.
Option 4 doesn't apply as there is no option about it. It's automatic. I believe my option 5 is correct.

 

Simply that the term, "Baptist" is not a term that is applicable for todays believer, outside its proper manifestation as a gift given by the Holy Spirit and His indwelling at conversion. It was a specific sign to Israel that their long promised Messiah was near at hand. The fact that this sign has been adopted for a huge group of people today is simply wrong headed. Baptism by human efforts is not only adding nothing to the Holy Spirits work but it can be viewed as actually denying it.