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Featured The Huns on the March Again

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by OldRegular, Aug 25, 2014.

  1. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    The "Hitler Card" again? Man, you need to find a different fallacy to play that one is really getting stale. Of course it's more believable to you. You've already proven that you can't tell the difference between hype and evidence, again and again and again. :type:
     
    #21 poncho, Aug 28, 2014
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  2. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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  3. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Afraid to post the link to the Ukrainian facebook page? I can find better satellite images on https://www.google.com/earth/

    Recent and archived news articles by Michael R. Gordon of The New York Times.

    Micheal Gordon, Micheal Gordon, where have I heard that name before?

    Wasn't he Judith Miller's partner when she was writing those hyped up reports of WMD's in Iraq?

    [​IMG]

    In 2002, reporting by Michael Gordon and Judith Miller played a key role in raising public support for the Iraq War.[11] Their article, "THREATS AND RESPONSES: THE IRAQIS; U.S. SAYS HUSSEIN INTENSIFIES QUEST FOR A-BOMB PARTS", claimed, "Iraq has stepped up its quest for nuclear weapons and has embarked on a worldwide hunt for materials to make an atomic bomb."[12] Anonymous "American officials" and "intelligence experts" are the only sources.[12] Following Miller's later refusal to reveal her source in the ousting of C.I.A. officer Valerie Plame, the Times reporter spent 85 days in jail and was later released from the newspaper. The decision to release Miller also involved the controversy over the bias of her joint reporting with Gordon regarding Iraq's nuclear intentions and the Bush administration.[13] Despite his joint involvement in the controversy, Michael Gordon remains the Chief Military Correspondent for the New York Times.[14]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_R._Gordon


    Yeah, I thought that name sounded familiar. Now there's a reporter with real Baptist Board "credibility".
     
    #23 poncho, Aug 29, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2014
  4. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    NATO satellite photographs.
     
  5. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Actually no they aren't "NATO satellite photographs" at all. They're "hand out photos" from a private company called Digital Globe.

    Why with all the high falutin technology the US government has orbiting around the planet would they choose to show us a few washed out grainy images from a private company as their alleged evidence?

    Have you come by that evidence that proves your allegation that the "Russian separatists" shot dowm flight MH17?

    Where' the evidence of the allegedly destroyed Russian convoy? Have you found that yet?
     
    #25 poncho, Aug 29, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2014
  6. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    These NATO photographs show Russian troops and weapons inside Ukraine. Some people are saying that this is the fault of the West that Russia invaded Ukraine.
     
  7. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]

    http://usnato.tumblr.com/post/96003086125/new-satellite-imagery-exposes-russian-combat-troops



     
  8. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    The headline should read "NATO releases grainy hand out photos from a private company called Digital Globe that allegedly shows . . . "

    You'd never know these aren't "NATO" photos from reading the headlines though.

    Do your homework.

    The history of NATO expansion and Washington's hypocrisy is well documented. You can't change that no matter how many times you use the old guilt by association fallacy on people who bring that up to remind you.

    I have to :laugh: at you neocons every time I read another post where one or all of you rightly accuse Obama of being a pathological until he starts telling lies that fits your biases and agenda then all of a sudden he's the most credible person on the planet.

    You go right ahead defending your main man Obama CMG. I still believe a liar is a liar is a liar.
     
    #28 poncho, Aug 30, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2014
  9. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Has the U.S. Targeted Nuclear-Armed Russia with Regime Change?

    America Has Undertaken Regime Change In Many Countries Before

    In 1957, the U.S. and British governments planned regime change in Syria … because it was drifting too close to the Soviet Union.

    20 years ago, influential U.S. government officials decided to effect regime change throughout the Middle East and North Africa. The countries targeted were “old Soviet regimes”.

    The U.S. has, of course, already carried out regime change in Guatemala, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Chile, Haiti and many other countries. The U.S. was also instrumental in the recent regime change in Ukraine.

    Soviet leader Gorbachev allowed the Soviet Union broken up only after the U.S. and NATO promised they would not encircle Russia militarily. Ever since 1991, they have broken their promise and encircled Russia.

    Is the U.S. Now Trying to Implement Regime Change In Russia?

    New Republic writes:

    There are now voices in Moscow saying that these sanctions are an attempt to force regime change in Russia.

    Richard Becker – of the American anti-war group Answer Coalition – says:

    Their (US and NATO) clear aim is to surround Russia, to weaken Russia in the long run [and] to bring about regime change in Russia…

    DNA India argues:

    Read More At: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/u-s-targeted-nuclear-armed-russia-regime-change.html

    Remember CMG it was your "credible sources" in government and the mainstream media that claimed Assad "gassed his own people" and spread the rumor far and wide until the truth came out. It was Washington and NATO's radical Islamic extermist proxy regime change fighters that "gassed their own people". In other words the people Washington and NATO were supporting murdered people to get NATO to fly air cover for them like NATO did for their Al Qaeda "brothers" in Libya.

     
    #29 poncho, Aug 30, 2014
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  10. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    The photographs, as everyone knows, were released by NATO HQ in Belgium. NATO identified the military equipment in Ukraine as Russian. As for the company contracted by NATO, I don't think that that is even important. Photos taken and transmitted from space of minute objects might be difficult to see if NATO were not releasing the military quality photographs.

    Russia has invaded Ukraine, and 0bam@ has announced that he will do nothing.
     
  11. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    The source of the images is an independent firm named Digital Globe. The images have not been altered or changed by NATO. Additional information has been added to identify locations, dates and equipment. DigitalGlobe images can be independently verified: http://www.digitalglobe.com

    http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_112103.htm

    You keep overlooking two small details.

    1. Both sides are using Russian military equipment supplied by Russia or manufactured by the pre regime change Ukrainian government under an agreement between Russia and the legitimate government of Ukraine, you know the government the people of Ukraine actually elected not the one Washington and the EU forced on Ukraine after it's engineered regime change had taken place. Which was an actual violation of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity (as opposed to the many western sponsored allegations of a Russian violation of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity) by a foreign (western) power that has made a habit of overthrowing other nations government's and engaging in "nation building' experiments of which there is ample evidence. Which incidentally used to be an activity that real conservatives frowned on until the republican party was co opted by the neocons and started their never ending fear and war mongering campaign against not only the people of the USA but the whole world.

    And 2 . . .

    If as you keep claiming "Russia invaded Ukraine" we'd all be reading about how fast the western backed regime in Kyiv fell instead of having to look at grainy satellite images from a private company being passed off as "NATO sat images" and relying on the word of proven liars in Washington who's only evidence up till now has been "trust us we're the government".

    If these allegations were true . . .

    Washington would have used it's own satellite capabilities which I have to imagine are far superior to Digital Globe's satellites. In other words, Washington would have released sat photos that would allow us to read the license plates on each vehicle and actually see what uniforms the people around those alleged artillery pieces are wearing. Instead we are being asked to have faith in a few grainy images and those who have continually put unfounded allegations forward as fact.

    Have you completely lost the ability to think for yourself or have you just decided that you're own dislike and mistrust of the Russians is enough to allow yourself to be led around by the nose by people who have lied to you in the past about practically everything else?

    In the last couple of days the newly formed military units of the Donetsk National Republic have defeated and surrounded large portions of the remaining Ukrainian military. Russian President Putin asked the Donetsk Republic to allow the defeated Ukrainians to return home to their wives and mothers. The Donetsk Republic agreed to Putin’s mercy request as long as the Ukrainians left their weapons behind. The Donetsk Republic is short on weapons as, contrary to Western lies, the Donetsk Republic is not supplied with weapons by Russia.

    Washington’s puppet government in Kiev declined the mercy extended to its troops and said they had to fight to the death. Shades of Hitler at Stalingrad. Western Ukraine has remained the repository of Nazism since 1945, and it is Western Ukraine with which Washington is allied against freedom and democracy.

    Thanks to The Saker we are provided with a press conference with English subtitles that Alexander Zakharchenko, Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Donetsk National Republic, held with media. Present are Russian and Western press.


    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/08/30/west-greatest-cause-war-human-history-stands-stripped-legitimacy-paul-craig-roberts/
     
    #31 poncho, Aug 31, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2014
  12. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    NATO's Options in Ukraine

    September 1, 2014 (Tony Cartalucci - NEO) -

    After provoking what is increasingly a devastating and expanding conflict in Ukraine, NATO appears to be out of options as its proxy regime loses its grip on both its military campaign against its own population in eastern Ukraine, as well as political control in the capital of Kiev itself. However, despite the turn of events, with NATO apparently rudderless, those seeking to undo and reserve the damage the West has created in Eastern Europe must not become complacent.

    NATO still possesses several options with which it can respond to its deteriorating proxy regime and the eroding of its interests both in the region, and around the world.

    Propaganda Retrenchment Before Aggressive Military Aid

    As the West has done in Syria, it now seeks to do in Ukraine - a complete retrenchment of the official narrative regarding the nature of the ongoing conflict. Previously, the Western media has gone through great lengths to obscure overt Nazism running throughout both the political front it is propping up in Kiev, as well as across the irregular forces sent alongside what remains of Ukraine's national army. Western media outlets have briefly touched on the issue in attempts to mitigate and manage growing public concern.

    Regarding the formation by the Interior Ministry in Kiev of a battalion of Nazis - the Azov Battalion - the BBC would publish, "Ukraine conflict: 'White power' warrior from Sweden," the Telegraph would publish, "Ukraine crisis: the neo-Nazi brigade fighting pro-Russian separatists," and Al Jazeera would publish, "Driven by far-right ideology, Azov Battalion mans Ukraine’s front line." Each would in turn, admit that literal Nazis are fighting on behalf of the NATO-backed regime in Kiev - with the regime itself raising ultra-right, Neo-Nazi battle formations. But each would also attempt to downplay the implications and role of Nazism within the ongoing conflict.

    That was until Foreign Policy magazine published its article, praising what it called, "fascist defenders of freedom." It's article titled, "Preparing For War with Ukraine's Fascist Defenders of Freedom," claims:

    Read More At: http://landdestroyer.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/natos-options-in-ukraine.html
     
  13. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Reader alert: Code Pink
     
  14. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    Greetings, CMG,

    Bottom line: there is no evidence thus far, other than what Poncho has already noted to be false.

    I am not a fan of Putin; however, I recognize the NeoCons as a substantially greater threat than Putin. One day in the future, the next generations will ask who were the people who came forward and either confronted, counteracted or shouted down theNeoCons, and exposed them for the mentally-challenged dolts that they are/were. They have been wrong from the start, they continue to be wrong, and there have been thousands who have perished in the wars they have started. [I see to recall that former President George Herbert Walker Bush referred to them as the crazies (not in quotes because I am not sure if this is accurate).]

    If you DO believe the NeoCon rhetoric, I suggest you research their origins.

    Regards, hope you are well,
    BiR
     
  15. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Well at last Don Poncho has an ally. The problem is that the Dems control NATO and the government and it is quite a stretch to say that 0bam@ wants to do anything about Russia and Putin. The leader on this issue is Merkel in Germany. I regret that you do not believe the NATO released photos showing Russian military positions in the Ukraine.

    Finally, this is not anti-neocon, a spent force, but code pink anti-West.
     
  16. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    So far you have not proven your allegations to be true. All you have done is try to paint me as a traitor to my own country for not acting like you and falling for the same lies and propaganda the neocons and the media presstitutes have been peddling since 9/11.

    There is no truth in these people.

    That does not make me a traitor. It makes you gullible to the extreme.
     
  17. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Leo Strauss and the "Crazies in the Basement"

    There is no question that we are engaged in a war of ideologies, or that democracy is under siege. But, contrary to prevalent misinformation and myth, the significant threat is within, not outside the halls of our government.

    From the beginning of his presidency, George W. Bush has surrounded himself with radical neo-conservatives, with what his father, the first President Bush, called “crazies in the basement.” They have advised him on everything from political strategy to foreign policy. What they have in common is the warped worldview of Leo Strauss: a charismatic and influential professor of political philosophy at the University of Chicago during the 1950s and 60s.

    When he died in 1973, Strauss left what could be called a cult-following of obsessive acolytes, including former Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, “Prince of Darkness” Richard Perle, and Republican pundit William Kristol.

    Strauss’ radical teaching pervades not only the Bush administration but many of the major conservative think-tanks as well---the Project for a New American Century (PNAC) and the American Enterprise Institute, in particular.

    Becoming familiar with Strauss’ philosophy sheds light on our current political crisis and brings the challenge to focus. Above all, Strauss had contempt for the democratic process---he was an elitist who labeled the majority of human beings ‘the vulgar-many.’ His philosophy is an odd combination of the idealism of ancient Plato and the pragmatism of modern Machiavelli.

    His ideal: the philosopher-king---The Decider, the authoritarian leader who knows what’s best for the befuddled majority.

    His weapons: ‘the Noble Lie’ and perpetual war---empowered by a fearful and ignorant electorate, a deferential Congress, a lock-step Supreme Court, and a compliant media; in other words, the total breakdown of the constitutional system of checks and balances.

    http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_donald_a_080423_leo_strauss_and_the_.htm

    Now Strauss and Machiavelli live on through the democrats. The problem isn't with the democrats or the republicans per say. It's with their warped philosophy they adopted from Leo Strauss and Machiavelli , in a word, "elitism".

    It's this "elitism" that is destroying this country from within. If we had no external enemies what so ever the "neocons" or those who follow Machiavelli's philosophy that "we the people" are to stupid to know what's best for ourselves and our country and there fore must be led around by the nose through deception and "noble lies" by our "princes" (read Machiavelli) would still destroy this country and everything it stood for. The only reason they keep telling us about all these "external threats" is to keep us in fearful and engaged in endless wars abroad and blind to the stone cold fact that they themselves are the biggest threat this country has ever faced.

    It's time to wake up and smell the reality. Our "leaders" are high functioning psychopaths that are taking us into ever more dangerous situations because, THEY"RE INSANE!



    Alarmed at the anti-Russian hysteria sweeping Washington, and the specter of a new Cold War, U.S. intelligence veterans one of whom is none other than William Binney, the former senior NSA crypto-mathematician who back in March 2012 blew the whistle on the NSA's spying programs more than a year before Edward Snowden, took the unusual step of sending the following memo dated August 30 to German Chancellor Merkel challenging the reliability of Ukrainian and U.S. media claims about a Russian "invasion."

    < snip >

    MEMORANDUM FOR: Angela Merkel, Chancellor of Germany
    FROM: Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)
    SUBJECT: Ukraine and NATO

    We the undersigned are longtime veterans of U.S. intelligence. We take the unusual step of writing this open letter to you to ensure that you have an opportunity to be briefed on our views prior to the NATO summit on September 4-5.

    You need to know, for example, that accusations of a major Russian "invasion" of Ukraine appear not to be supported by reliable intelligence. Rather, the "intelligence" seems to be of the same dubious, politically "fixed" kind used 12 years ago to "justify" the U.S.-led attack on Iraq. We saw no credible evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq then; we see no credible evidence of a Russian invasion now. Twelve years ago, former Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, mindful of the flimsiness of the evidence on Iraqi WMD, refused to join in the attack on Iraq. In our view, you should be appropriately suspicions of charges made by the US State Department and NATO officials alleging a Russian invasion of Ukraine.

    President Barack Obama tried yesterday to cool the rhetoric of his own senior diplomats and the corporate media, when he publicly described recent activity in the Ukraine, as "a continuation of what’s been taking place for months now … it’s not really a shift."

    Obama, however, has only tenuous control over the policymakers in his administration – who, sadly, lack much sense of history, know little of war, and substitute anti-Russian invective for a policy. One year ago, hawkish State Department officials and their friends in the media very nearly got Mr. Obama to launch a major attack on Syria based, once again, on "intelligence" that was dubious, at best.

    Largely because of the growing prominence of, and apparent reliance on, intelligence we believe to be spurious, we think the possibility of hostilities escalating beyond the borders of Ukraine has increased significantly over the past several days. More important, we believe that this likelihood can be avoided, depending on the degree of judicious skepticism you and other European leaders bring to the NATO summit next week.

    Read More At: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-01/ex-nsa-director-us-intelligence-veterans-write-open-letter-merkel-avoid-all-out-ukra

    Looks like we're not the only ones that are questioning the lack of evidence to back up Washington and the media's allegations BIR.
     
    #37 poncho, Sep 2, 2014
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  18. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    No one called you anything, Don Poncho--except I call you Don in deference to your social position.

    Reader warning--this thread is about code pink.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    I'm quite amazed that you haven't noticed how many times you've had to resort to using the guilt by association fallacy in attempting to support your position.

    Doesn't it strike you as odd that you have to keep using this fallacy in one fashion or another to hide the fact you can't come up with any credible evidence? I believe you to be an honest person so the only way I can comprehend how you could deny the many times you've tried to paint me as a traitor in this and other threads has brought me to the point where I'm starting to wonder if this type of behavior is a conditioned response brought on by a sudden attack of cognitive dissonance caused by being forced to face the reality of the situation. Namely, that you have once again allowed yourself to be hoodwinked by the neocon fear mongers and the mass media presstitutes.
     
    #39 poncho, Sep 2, 2014
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  20. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    You are the one always making accusations without any foundations.

    [​IMG]
     
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