Featured John R. Rice and the Antichrist

The Pope will not and cannot be the Antichrist. Read Revelation 13. The first beast is a political figure and the second is a religious figure. The first is the Antichrist and the second the false prophet. The first will have a one world government and the second will have a one world church.
Even if the Pope were involved he would not be the Antichrist, the first beast. This much is obvious. You need to read your Bible.

As to who it is, it is all speculation. The head of the ISIS has a better chance than the Pope because not only is he religious, he is political.
I didn't prophecy anything. I speculated. I said here is a possibility that frankly makes more sense than the Pope. The Pope cannot be the Antichrist, but he could play the role of the false prophet.

Even then it is still speculation. No one knows for sure.

 

DHK - I'm very much eclectic when it comes to Revelation (though I'll admit that I never really considered any specific terminology for my beliefs until recently). I don't read it as literally as many people on this forum do. Not that that should cause division. So long as we believe Christ to be our foundation and salvation to be the keystone doctrine of our faith, then our individual views on eschatology shouldn't really keep us from fellowship.

I'm not saying we shouldn't study the past. The history of Israel and the Church are great for us to know. When I said "down the road" I was meaning the future. It's my opinion that we gain no ground by making claims that 'this person is the Antichrist' or 'the Antichrist will rise from this group or this nation.' You admit scripture is profitable for us, but scripture says we are already at war with antichrists. To spend our time trying to determine who the future Antichrist is will take away our focus from the here and now. I seem to recall some scripture saying 'take no thought for tomorrow.'

 

Go to any systematic theology book. I believe there are ten basic fields of doctrine. I won't list them all. But you know what I mean: Chrisology, theology proper, Bibliology, Pneumatology, etc. One of those main fields, one of the ten is eschatology. It takes up a good chunk of the Bible covering portions of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and almost every book in between. It can't be ignored.
I said very plainly in my post that to state who the antichrist is, is simple speculation. It is Protestant that wants to state positively that the Antichrist is the Pope. I said he is wrong, for he cannot be identified with any degree of accuracy.

Now look at what the Bible really says:
[FONT=&quot]1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.[/FONT]
--Yes there are many antichrists in this world today. But John states that THAT Antichrist is still to come. There is still one very specific Antichrist that will come. He is more accurately described in Revelation 13, however he is prophesied right here in a passage that you referred to by John.
One cannot escape eschatology.
All the Bible is inspired of God and is profitable, not just the parts of the Bible that one enjoys.

 

I'm not trying to give off the impression that I am ignoring eschatology. I was just trying to say that we can rile ourselves up and go around and around in circles over debates like this. It really doesn't matter what your eschatological viewpoint is concerning future events when the same scripture says we are already dealing with the "spirit of antichrist" and the fact that there are already "many antichrists." I'm not trying to be snarky or facetious here, DHK. I've seen arguments like these tear apart churches, or study groups, or friendships.

 

Welcome to Baptist Board. This is a debate forum. If you don't wish to debate there are fellowship forums where they discuss the weather and daisies.

Here we debate sometimes very controversial topics, whether they be centered on eschatology, or aspects thereof; a whole forum given to Calvinism vs. Arminianism; tongues and the gifts of the Spirit, different religions like Catholicism, and different doctrines of those religions.

It is a debate forum, and the fire often gets hot. If you don't like or appreciate debate then perhaps you would be better off in a fellowship forum.
BTW, this isn't a church. We don't know each other. More than that this forum in particular is "The Other Christian Denominations Forum," so there is bound to be great differences in the doctrine presented. There is greater unity in the Baptist only forums, but still much disagreement there, usually because of the nature of controversial topics debated.
The versions forum is often hotly contested.
Again, if you don't like debate stay out of debate forums.

 

I'm not saying I don't like to debate things. I really do, if you got to know me... And I don't mind confronting someone if I think they're in the wrong.

But even you have to admit that, many times, debate is just another door for the enemy to enter in through, as our debates can get so mean and nasty that it becomes a perfect stomping ground for Satan.

The only other alternative is to lay out at the beginning of each thread what points of view are most welcome in that thread. I've noted that some threads around here are not very friendly toward the Amil point of view, some are fairly against dispensationalism. I don't want to limit people like that.

 

At one time many Christians beleived the one world religion would be the Catholic church. Now many believe it will be Islam. I see no evidence of either. What I believe is the one world religion will resemble neither one of those but will be focused on worshiping the literal anti-christ. The advancement of Islam, IMO, could be the catalyst that sets up Israel to agree and sign a peace agreement with what will turn out to be the anti-christ. Islam may be a dirving force that makes Israel comfortable with that.


But anyone who talks in definite terms like they know what will happen and what the one world religion will look like is just talking.

 

For the most part I agree with your view.
The one world religion/church could also be highly influenced by the Charismatic movement and the ecumenical movement both of which are very pervasive in our society today.

 

Maybe, I just believe that we need not look to what is going on now to see what the one world religion will look like. Instead we should look at what is going on now to see what the catalyst will be to set it up. I believe it will look far different from anything we are seeing today.

 

Your arrogance is noted--"I am always right and you are always wrong," attitude.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

(ESV) For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
--In the Great Tribulation there will be a time of complete lawlessness.
Why? Because that restraining influence of the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the way via the rapture.

Vs.8 THEN, shall that Wicked (One) be revealed. He is a person. He is THE Antichrist. But the Lord will destroy after seven years of Tribulation.

vs.9 The Antichrist's coming will be after the work of Satan--deceiving the people and doing lying works and wonders.

vs. 10.2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
--There are no Christians in the Great Tribulation. They have been raptured. All the world will follow the Antichrist. They love not the truth, that they might be saved. IOW, they will not be saved. This is indicated in verse 11.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
God will send them a strong delusion (no believers); all of them will believe a lie (that the Antichrist is God).

2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
--no believers here. All are damned. They do not believe the truth. They have pleasure in unrighteousness. These are the unsaved of the Great Tribulation who are following the mystery of iniquity or lawlessness otherwise known as the Antichrist.

There can be no clearer explanation and description than in this passage of scripture.

 

Actually his behavior is much like an internet troll. His posts are only meant to inflame. He seems to know the lingo but does not have the heart.

 

You come to your beliefs backwards.
History does not interpret the Bible (your method).
The Bible interprets history. It is the Bible stands and history that fails. You want me to look at various people and their testimonies in history. Why? They are not my authority. My authority is God and Him alone. He has given me His revelation in this book we call the Bible. On that will I stand, not on history.
You seem to be using history as the basis of your doctrine, not the Word of God.

 

This thread is a disgrace. You help to perpetuate that disgrace by feeding it. Shame on you.

 

And you are entitled to your opinion. Let me remind you that what you have posted is just that--opinion and nothing else. Your authority is not the Word of God but history. Opinions have no value especially when they are not grounded on the Word of God.

 

This might be one of the most offensive posts I have ever seen. It reminds me of how I was when I was a very legalistic religious LOST Baptist. I have almost every book ever written by Dr. Rice, and though I don't agree with him a lot of times, God used him mightily to lead many a soul to the foot of the cross.

Imagine where America would be if we had a lot more men like him, who shared the gospel with everyone they possibly could? Imagine where America would be if people stopped spending all their time spreading so much hate, and started spreading Jesus to the lost world?

How many people have been brought to Jesus because of hateful speech about other people? How many people have a relationship with Jesus because they were told about JESUS, sweetest name I know, fills my every longing, keeps me singing as I go?

 

No, I don't.
Have you now become omniscient as God, knowing the end from the beginning?
Do you know that there were more Christian martyrs in the 20th century than in all the previous centuries added up together? Put in that light your "evidence" doesn't hold much weight does it?
Do you know that as we enter the 21st century the rate at which Christians are being persecuted, killed or martyred has only increased from the last century. It has not diminished one iota. Your theories are out-dated and need to be revised. You are statistically wrong. You are living back in the Dark Ages when the monks had a hard time learning how to count.

The name that I have been entrusted with is "Jesus Christ," of whom I am an ambassador. Even as I type this and post it, I do so from 12 time zones away from my own home and probably yours. IOW, I am a witness and an ambassador for the King of kings and Lord of lords in a place that you would probably never set your foot in.

You bear false witness.

What a ridiculous statement.
The fact that Billy Graham may be deceived concerning one of the popes, or even about the RCC in general, does not give you license to equate him with the anti-christ. Where do you get this garbage from?
Because he errs in one area of his Christian life, (like you are right here posting this trash), he is damned to hell??
Do you practice what you preach? Of your four fingers when you point one there are still three more pointing back at you.