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WHAT IS the purpose of government, anyway?

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by billwald, Feb 1, 2011.

  1. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    Meant government in general. If US Constitution was designed for a Christian population then maybe that is why we have been going down hill. There is no such think as a "Christian Nation" and never was.

    >The reason for domestic unrest is injustice.

    Exactly why gross income equality is necessary for domestic tranquility. How can a population be tranquil when 95% of the income and assets are controlled by 5% of the people?


    When did the white people ever treat the Indian People with Justice? "Justice" is what we want when we punish other people and "mercy" is what we want when it is our turn to be judged.

    Christianity isn't based on Justice. Say the right Jesus Prayer mantra and we can squirm out of our worst sins? Not even a Purgatory? I invited Jesus into my heart 50 years ago so if I murder one of you next week I'm OK? What is just about Jesus dying for my sins?
     
  2. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68 Active Member

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    God's word clearly defines a primary purpose of government to be the administration of justice. It is clear that our wise God knew we needed such an institution to, ideally, balance the evil tendency of man. This, of course, takes nothing away from the fact that no man seeks to be good of his own accord and the only goodness we demonstrate is because of changed "hearts and minds" brought about by salvation and the work of the Holy Spirit in our daily lives to guide and direct us. Government, however, is still needed to administer justice among but the saved and the unsaved because, unrestrained, all will tend towards evilness.

    The success of such an institution of justice is predicated upon it being built upon God's system of justice for man. Only Christianity is blessed with the Truth of God's word even though some other religions emulate some common fragments of morality, decency, and justice that are but a shadow of Christianity. This does not mean the Government itself need be a "Christian" government as it is not an entity such as individual. It does mean that government can only follow God's justice if its leaders and followers head and seek His will in their manner of ruling and following.

    Man has never been perfect since the fall and will not be until the second coming of our Lord. Therefore, man's institutions shall also never be perfect. There is no perfect execution of government. But our government was designed with this in mind to provide for a system of checks and balances that would resist the corruption of man in its design and implementation. That still does not replace the "hearts and minds" of the people who can still corrupt even the best design and implementation. We were warned of that from the start!

    Yet, compared to every other civil government I know about in the course of human history, America has stood the tallest. America has faults - although we could debate which ones and to what extent - but has consistently worked to resolve them from within and done so rather remarkably.

    The Bible does not mention America as being the chosen nation and, therefore, it's exact purpose or longevity in God's great plan is unclear to me. But America has been and, for the moment, obviously remains part of His great plan. I don't know what that means relative to the remaining course of human history because I can only live in the present. We should cherish what we have, protect it, and seek to pass it own to our descendants for their welfare (in the true sense of the word's meaning) rather than treat it as a meaningless gift no better than any of the countless tragedies of human governance even in our own times and known history.

    However, it is very clear that God did bless the people of the nation with an excellent framework for civil government and that His will was in it from the beginning. We become foolish when we start to think otherwise casting away that blessing or pretending it came about by some other supreme power.

    Being saved does not give us license to sin even though we know that we will. The Bible clearly addresses this topics in several books included those of Paul and James which speak the firmest about it.
     
  3. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Really? According to the Scriptures, what exalts a nation?
     
  4. David Lamb

    David Lamb Active Member

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    Is there such a thing as a "Christian nation "? Even if every one of the first settlers in what is now the USA was a firm believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, there is no reason to supoose that each of their children would be converted.

    But apart from that, you did not answer what I was asking: Was the OP asking about government generally, or your national government in the USA? BillWald, the one who started this thread, has clarified that he meant government generally.
     
  5. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    And yet you would probably not quibble if someone described Saudi as Muslim, Thailand as Buddhist, or Israel as Jewish. Obviously only the Lord knows every heart, but 76% of Americans self-identify as Christian.
     
  6. David Lamb

    David Lamb Active Member

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    There is surely a great difference between "self-identifying" and actually being. In our last national census in 2001, about 70% "self-identified" themselves as Christian, yet only 7% attend church services of any kind.
     
  7. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    I think we all know that. Course I don't think we are supposed to be about the business of trying to identify who really is saved or not.



    Here is an interesting map of Christianity worldwide.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    And another of just the US

    [​IMG]
     
  9. David Lamb

    David Lamb Active Member

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    Sorry if you though I meant that we should be in that business. I'll put it another way, which I hope will express what I really mean:

    The question on the 2001 UK census about religion was:

    What is your religion? (Tick one only)
    None

    Christian (including Church of England, Catholic, Protestant and all other Christian denominations)

    Buddhist

    Hindu

    Jewish

    Muslim

    Sikh

    Any other religion
    As I mentioned before, 71% of the population (41,014,811 out of a population of 57,103,927) ticked the "Christian" box.

    But if there had been a question in the census that asked people, "Do you know the Lord Jesus Christ personally as your Saviour?" I am certain that the number answering "yes" would be considerably less than 71%.

    More importantly, the bible gives us no reason to believe that there is such a thing as a Christian nation.
     
  10. targus

    targus New Member

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  11. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >God's word clearly defines a primary purpose of government to be the administration of justice.

    And didn't the Prophets mostly preach that God would destroy his people because the super rich were partying while the working class were starving?

    Haven't the Jews always been good capitalists, bankers, industrialists? Financiers of "Christian" wars?

    Isn't the Egyptian mess all about Israel's control over the US government?
     
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Government is intended to perform the same function that a GOVERNOR on an internal combustion engine does. It prevents a society from running amok and destroying itself.
     
  13. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68 Active Member

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    The prophets reminded men that God would punish them for turning away from Him into wickedness and the prophets foretold of the coming of the Lord to rescue us from our hopeless state of deserved condemnation.
     
  14. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    And in the aggregate, people make up towns and ultimately nations.

    "The Lord said, If I find fifty righteous men in Sodom, then I shall spare the whole city for their sake."




     
  15. David Lamb

    David Lamb Active Member

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    Yes, God promised to spare Sodom if there were fifty righteous people in that city. Indeed, that numbercomes down eventually to just ten (see Genesis 18.32).

    But did that merciful promise make the city of Sodom as a whole into a righteous, a godly, city?

    Anyway, the whole context is of God keeping the righteous safe. In 2 Peter 2.7 we read that God "delivered righteous Lot". Sodom didn't become righteous because Lot lived there. Your town and my town, your country and my country, don't become Christian towns and countries just because you and I and other Christians live there.
     
  16. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    The people of the city were not righteous just as we are not, but are made so by his grace.

    It seems to me the context is also that God bless all of them if any had shown any inclination to follow him.

    And it is a principle repeated in Mat 13, "But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them." Fourty righteous men, or even less, would have been enough for the Lord to bless Sodom. I'm sure that in your country and mine there are many more than that.
     
  17. David Lamb

    David Lamb Active Member

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    I agree that the only way a person can be righteous in God's sight is by His grace. But I thought your point was that the city would have been righteous if some righteous people had been found in it

    Yes, I believe that blessings do result from Christians living in a place, but that is different from saying that the place (country, town or whatever) is Christian, and that is what I thought we were discussing.
     
  18. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    Well then consider that at any given time most of the Jewish nation was disobedient/non-believing, bowing before a golden calf, or cavorting with the heathen. Mostly God dealt with a 'remnant'. And yet no one would ever consider saying that Israel was not a Jewish nation.

    And you might say that in many western countries today Christian faith is slowly receding but there is still at least a remnant. God often promised blessings to this or that non-Jewish land in the Bible. I see no reason why he may not still deal with nations in this way. But I'm sure you edumacated folks know better.
     
    #38 NiteShift, Feb 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2011
  19. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    The purpose of the American Government is set forth in the US Constitution.

    And, can be succinctly put as to maintain the peace and security of the homeland and ENABLE AMERICAN SOCIETY TO FLOURISH

    Something which the obama regime has been diametrically opposed to since day one...

    I do not think anyone can be *THAT* incompetent...

    So, I am assuming that the intent is the intentional destruction of American Society so that radical Islam can walk right in without a fight...
     
  20. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    I'd suggest reading Romans 13...
     
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