Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%
Register FAQ Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Left Container Right Container
Go Back > Baptist Archives (read only) > 2005 Archive

2005 Archive 2005 Archive.

Fewer Ads for Registered Users - Register Now!

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-06-2005, 11:00 AM
Anleifr Anleifr is offline
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 113

Here is what Paul says:

1 Cor 6:1-8 (KJV) Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather [suffer yourselves to] be defrauded? Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that [your] brethren.
Here is what Jesus says:

Mat 5:40 (KJV) And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have [thy] cloke also.
I have tended to interpret these verse at "face value" and believed that believers should not sue other believers but, rather, should take their grievances to the church. If a believer is being sued by another believer (or by anyone for that matter) he should not "fight" back; he should leave the situation up to God.

I read in the Baptist news about state conventions suing Baptist state colleges and Christian groups suing the ACLU and each other over "evolution" and "school prayer."

I was interested in seeing some comments and alternative interpretations of these Scripture verses.
Old 01-06-2005, 11:01 AM
LadyEagle's Avatar
LadyEagle LadyEagle is offline
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 22,028

ACLU is not Christian. Case closed.
Per Jesus: "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:" Matthew 12:25
Keep looking up Christian American - It's going to be a rough ride from here on out!
Old 01-06-2005, 11:15 AM
Hardsheller Hardsheller is offline
3,000 Posts Club
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Missouri
Posts: 3,816

The cases of State Conventions suing Baptist State Colleges has occurred in recent months in Georgia and Missouri.

Here's why some think it's permissable.

These organizations are incorporated under State Law. If they violate any state code in the way they do business who will call them to task if not State Conventions or member churches or messengers of the convention?
Old 01-06-2005, 11:23 AM
Debby in Philly's Avatar
Debby in Philly Debby in Philly is offline
2,000 Posts Club
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,537
Send a message via AIM to Debby in Philly

Our attorney won't take a case to court if he knows the two parties involved are Christians. He advises them to take it to their deacon boards. But that has to do with individuals. When you are dealing with business entities, even "Christian" ones, things must be dealt with legally, in order to be valid in the world's reckoning. Besides, not everyone working for a "Christian" legal entity is necessarily a born-again Christian.
Old 01-06-2005, 11:47 AM
Plain Old Bill Plain Old Bill is offline
3,000 Posts Club
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Spokane, Washington
Posts: 3,657

Right on LadyEagle.
Old 01-06-2005, 12:06 PM
Anleifr Anleifr is offline
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 113

These organizations are incorporated under State Law. If they violate any state code in the way they do business who will call them to task if not State Conventions or member churches or messengers of the convention?
I understand that they are accountable to no one but the conventions (et al) ... and God. But should the Christian conventions bring sue the Christian colleges? Or should they either assert their accountabiltiy perogative a different (more Biblical?) way or let God take care of them?

I would respond to those you make the assertion that suing is permissable when there isn't outside accountability that such scenarios do not negate Scriptural prohibitions. The question then is whether or not suing other Christians (or other Christian institutions) is prohibited by Scripture.
Old 01-06-2005, 12:33 PM
El_Guero's Avatar
El_Guero El_Guero is offline
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wolfe City, Texas
Posts: 7,714

Are you suing or being sued?

Gotta be clear sometimes ...
Old 01-06-2005, 12:37 PM
Hardsheller Hardsheller is offline
3,000 Posts Club
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Missouri
Posts: 3,816

Do you not subject yourself to State Law when you incorporate a religious organization?

I think YES. And if you do then you must follow the state's prescribed legal system for resolving legal matters.

In the Missouri Case the Missouri State Convention was open for Christian Arbitration but the agencies refused. In fact the trustees acted like they didn't even know what Christian Arbitration was.
Old 01-06-2005, 12:43 PM
Johnv's Avatar
Johnv Johnv is offline
20,000 Posts Club
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Southern California
Posts: 21,321

Originally posted by Anleifr:
Should Christians sue other Christians?
If someone, Christian or not, wrongs me, and the wrong is not righted via all civil methods in an equitable manner, then I will indeed seek remedies via the civil court system. To refrain from doing so will do one of two things:

1 - It will send the message that Christians are patsies and will allow you to walk all over them, and

2 - It will send the message that Christians who wrong other Christians are exempt from being held accountable for their actions legally.

If you're a Christian, and accidentally run your car through my living room window costing $2000 to repair, and you refuse to pay for it, you bet I'm going to sue you for damages. OTOH, if I run my car through another person's window, not only will I pay for your window, but I will probably give you a few extra bucks just for your trouble. Keep in mind that, like most people, I don't have that much money lying around.
Old 01-06-2005, 01:31 PM
USN2Pulpit USN2Pulpit is offline
1,000 Posts Club
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Crawford County, MO
Posts: 1,641

Speaking as a Missouri Baptist, people should know that the agencies involved were instituted, funded, and supported by the Missouri Baptist Convention from their very beginnings. In effect, although God owns all things, the MBC exercized the temporal rights of ownership.

Soon after the beginnings of the conservative takeover in the SBC, there came a point at which each of the agencies "hijacked" themselves (quite illegally, I assure you) from the control of the MBC. This is (as of two years ago) a total of 231 million dollars in material assets, put in place by God through the tithes and offerings of members of the Missouri Baptist Convention.

What else is there to do? Should we just release control of these godly institutions so they can pursue their more liberal agenda? Or do we take steps necessary to restore them back to their rightful stewards - the Missouri Baptist Convention?

Either way, in the eyes of both Christian and secular society, we come out as losers. It's a difficult situation to be sure. For my part, I believe the MBC is doing the right thing in our efforts to restore these agencies to the MBC.

Most people are stuck on the idea of suing, as if anyone is going to profit from this. The MBC, however, is suing to regain control over assets that we already legally own. There's a big difference.


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:06 AM.

The Fundamental Top 500   The Best Baptist Web Sites at  
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Style Copyright: Wrestling Clique Wrestling Forum
Ad Management plugin by RedTyger

Web Hosting for is provided by