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Beliefs on baptism.

Discussion in 'Polls Forum' started by Darron Steele, Jul 26, 2006.

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Which best describes your belief on baptism as the Bible teaches?

  1. Baptism is NOT linked to salvation's cause, but still commanded.

    79 vote(s)
    83.2%

  2. Baptism is a specific fruit of any faith that saves us beforehand.

    9 vote(s)
    9.5%

  3. We are NOT saved until completed baptism.

    1 vote(s)
    1.1%

  4. Baptism is entirely optional.

    6 vote(s)
    6.3%
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  1. Darron Steele

    Darron Steele New Member

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    To all, many in churches which believe in salvation only upon completed baptism characterize those who disagree with them as so: `They do not believe in baptism' or `They don't believe they have to be baptized at all.'

    This is a mischaracterization. Hence, I am creating a poll to demonstrate that most believe that baptism is commanded, but not for salvation.

    I am not really interested in arguing with anyone. I am interested in correcting a common mischaracterization with numbers. I would prefer that everyone just vote, hence my placing it here.
     
    #1 Darron Steele, Jul 26, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2006
  2. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I noticed someone voted that Baptism is optional. Just wondering why you voted that way?

    Salty
     
    #2 Salty, Oct 8, 2006
  3. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    apparently 3 people have voted that obedience is optional.
     
    #3 donnA, Oct 9, 2006
  4. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    Baptism is a commandment and has nothing to do with salvation.

    It is a picture and public profession of what has already taken place in the heart.
     
    #4 I Am Blessed 24, Oct 10, 2006
  5. bobbyd

    bobbyd New Member

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    I know this is not the best example...so please don't pounce, but it is one i use to help better explain why to get baptized.

    When you graduate from high school/college, etc...you walk across the stage, get your diploma, shake someone's hand, and get your picture taken. You don't need to do it...you have done what is necessary to be a graduate, but that ceremony marks your commitment.
    Baptism is similar in that you have already placed your faith in Christ, the works is done...the baptism service announces to the world that you have made that commitment and will follow through with it.

    Like i said, not the best illustration, but it does work.
     
    #5 bobbyd, Oct 12, 2006
  6. Darron Steele

    Darron Steele New Member

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    In response to the last post, here is the reason why I was baptized:

    Scripture commands it.

    I do not really care why Scripture commands it. I do not believe it matters why the Word of God commands it. I do not believe it matters whether or not we see a purpose to God's directive. I am by no means denying that you agree, but in my case, the Word of God told me to get baptized as a new Christian and so I did it.
     
    #6 Darron Steele, Oct 20, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2006
  7. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    Your first answer is the best - I think . . . but it is oddly worded.
     
    #7 El_Guero, Oct 20, 2006
  8. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Although baptism can be a witness to others present, it is actually the first step of obedience to the Lord after conversion. It is like telling the Lord that you have obeyed His command. So, even if no one else witnesses your baptism, it is complete in the dunking.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #8 Jim1999, Oct 21, 2006
  9. bobbyd

    bobbyd New Member

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    I wasn't disregarding that our saying that it wasn't commanded...but the fact is, some people...maybe even most, don't see it that way.
    My illustration was just that, an illustration. Imperfect to help show the importance of a command given by a Perfect Savior.

     
    #9 bobbyd, Oct 23, 2006
  10. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    I'm confused, which baptism are we talking about??? The one with the holy spirit of the one with water?
     
    #10 LeBuick, Oct 23, 2006
  11. Darron Steele

    Darron Steele New Member

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    Water. Please do not deflect this discussion, since it looks like one has started.
     
    #11 Darron Steele, Oct 24, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2006
  12. Darron Steele

    Darron Steele New Member

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    Emphasis mine.
    As I understood. You were simply explaining a reason that you saw, and I believe you would have been baptized regardless of seeing that purpose.

    Thank you for the contribution of the illustration of the proposed purpose.
     
    #12 Darron Steele, Oct 24, 2006
  13. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    You ask about baptism but do not specify which baptism then say I'm deflecting the thread.

    Ok, water baptism is not necessary. The thief on the cross was not imurged in the water.
     
    #13 LeBuick, Oct 24, 2006
  14. Darron Steele

    Darron Steele New Member

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    LeBuick, please have some courtesy, and carefully reexamine the opening post. Completed baptism as cause for salvation is NOT what is asked on this thread and there is no reason to assume need to debate it. I have noticed on threads that debate baptismal regeneration that `Holy Spirit baptism' gets brought up for what seems to be a debate strategy; `Holy Spirit baptism' is automatic when a person believes so s/he cannot refuse it like water baptism, and further, bringing it up was not necessary -- I take Ephesians 2:8-10 at face value. I voted for option 2. I believe that the thief on the cross had the type of faith that would have had him go to the water to be baptized.

    The opening post was as follows:
    I knew what the polls were going to say, and when someone makes accusations, I can refer to the numbers in this poll; whether I agree with a group of Christians or not, I always hate to see them mischaracterized. Church attendance is not commanded for salvation, but I believe it is still commanded per Hebrews 10:24-5; similarly, the question of this thread was:
    Regardless of whether or not you believe completed baptism saves you, do you still believe that baptism is commanded?
     
    #14 Darron Steele, Oct 25, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2006
  15. atestring

    atestring New Member

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    When Peter was ask ,"What Must I do to Be Saved" on the Day of Pentecost,
    What Was His answer?
     
    #15 atestring, Nov 25, 2006
  16. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed New Member

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    All 4 options are viable, to an extent and in the right context.
    Correct, if you mean that baptism, in itself, can not save your soul eternally, yet is commanded as an open profession of faith to God.


    Correct, if you mean that baptism is a fruit of the spirit, done after regeneration, and not necessary for regeneration. That would be backwards, wouldn't it? To be water baptized before being Spirit baptized.


    Correct, if you mean that there is a kind of salvation present in water baptism. It is not the baptismal regeneration put forth by Campbellites and other such groups, but a temporal salvation in saving oneself from remorse, guilt, and shame for not being baptized when they felt a spiritual burden to be.


    Correct, if you mean that God does not forceably move us down the aisle and push our heads under water. It is up to us to make the commitment to follow this command of God.

    I picked number 1, although number 2 is just about the same answer.

    Number 1 states that water baptism doesn't cause you to be saved eternally, but is commanded as an obedience to God. Amen to that.

    Number 2 states that water baptism doesn't cause you to be saved eternally, but is a fruit of obedience to God. In my opinion, our bringing forth good fruit is tantamount to a command of God, so to me, 1 and 2 are nearly identical. Amen to this one too.

    Numbers 3 and 4, I believe, I have already elaborated enough on.

    So, in answer to your 4 poll questions, my answer is, Yes.
     
    #16 Bro. James Reed, Nov 28, 2006
  17. Darron Steele

    Darron Steele New Member

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    Number 1 is common Evangelical teaching. The belief is that even if a person refuses to be baptized when s/he could be, s/he could still be saved; s/he just committed a normal sin. Such people may or may not be baptized.
    Number 2 is a view not held by many, although some do suspect it both in Baptist circles and in the Restoration denominations. This is the belief that a person who truly believes the Gospel and that Jesus Christ is Lord is a person who would be baptized if ignorance or lack of opportunity did not prevent it. Barring extenuating circumstances, such people are always baptized. However, they were saved before they even entered the water.
    Number 3 is the common view of the Churches of Christ. This is the belief that until one arises from the water, s/he is unsaved -- period.
    Number 4 is a view not held by many. This is the belief that one is not even sinning when s/he evades baptism.

    The opening post was as follows, with emphasis:
    It is evident that too many people are set on disregarding this thread's purpose and are bound and determined to argue anyway. Those of you who wish to debate this matter, please create your own new thread for your purpose in the debate area and post a link to this poll thread if you like, or go to the one I created for this purpose:
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=904499#post904499
    If you do not want to create your own thread to argue, but are bound and determined to argue anyway, please do so over there INSTEAD of here.

    Moderators, would you please delete any posts on this thread that are provocations to debate?

    I do not want the thread's question to be buried in a sea of debate posts. I do not want the message of the poll's numbers to be overlooked.
     
    #17 Darron Steele, Nov 29, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2006
  18. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz New Member

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    I am going to vote for the fifth option since none of the given options were correct. Baptism is not a command, it is a means by which God has promised to make new disciples. As it is described in the Letter to the Romans in Baptism we are joined to Christ in his death and resurrection by means of Baptism. It is also as Peter describes it a washing not of dirt but a cleansing from sin, similar to the flood.
     
    #18 Chemnitz, Nov 30, 2006
  19. Darron Steele

    Darron Steele New Member

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    Clarification: I am also referring ONLY to baptism of older children, adolescents, and adults.
     
    #19 Darron Steele, Nov 30, 2006
  20. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    I'm with Chemnitz - I can't vote.
     
    #20 Matt Black, Dec 1, 2006
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