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| Baptist Theology & Bible Study General discussion of Baptist theology |
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02-25-2007, 06:41 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: southern Oregon
Posts: 11,704
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atonement/justice and forgiveness
I just finished reading this story
http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/02/25/forgive.ap/index.html
I think it makes exceptionally clear the difference between justice and forgiveness.
Which helps us to understand that while all sins have been atoned for by Christ, and all justice served, not all are or will be forgiven.
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02-25-2007, 07:35 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
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If justice is served, why then do people still go to hell?
And if one is going to answer "Because they choose to.", please explain how this answer fits the people described in Matt 7 who were clearly unwilling to go to hell and wanted to enter heaven.
Last edited by dwmoeller1; 02-25-2007 at 07:39 PM.
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02-25-2007, 07:46 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: southern Oregon
Posts: 11,704
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John 3:16 + answers you. They go for refusing to believe on Christ. He paid for their sins. If they refuse that gift, then they do indeed die IN their sins, but they don't go to hell because of them; they go because they refused God's salvation through Christ. The only destination if one refuses heaven is hell.
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02-25-2007, 07:53 PM
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5,000 Posts Club
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 5,098
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dwmoeller1
If justice is served, why then do people still go to hell?
And if one is going to answer "Because they choose to.", please explain how this answer fits the people described in Matt 7 who were clearly unwilling to go to hell and wanted to enter heaven.
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Yes…good point. I enjoy your post DW. Keep up the good work
What I do not understand, why are we are now going to CNN for theology definitions?
Last edited by Jarthur001; 02-25-2007 at 08:00 PM.
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02-25-2007, 08:00 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: southern Oregon
Posts: 11,704
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Not definitions. I have done those already here, straight from the Bible on these two things. But I thought that the story provided a very good EXAMPLE.
Jesus used examples from real life, too, right?
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02-25-2007, 08:05 PM
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5,000 Posts Club
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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Is rejecting Christ is Lord and God, a sin?
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02-25-2007, 08:12 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: southern Oregon
Posts: 11,704
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Absolutely. And it was atoned for, but it will never be forgiven if it remains that person's choice.
Atonement is justice. Christ satisfied all justice eternally. No insult/sin is left before God for eternity.
However, there are sinners who will not be there. Some of us have accepted Christ's gift of salvation and truth.
Others have rejected. So while God's justice is satisfied nevertheless, their refusal to believe condemns them eternally.
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02-25-2007, 08:59 PM
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2,000 Posts Club
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Helen
So while God's justice is satisfied nevertheless, their refusal to believe condemns them eternally.
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It is impossible for both halves of this statement to be true because they are contradictory. If their refusal to believe condemns them, then their unbelief is grounds for condemnation. Yet, if God's justice is satisfied, there is no longer any grounds for condemnation. You can't have it both ways.
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02-25-2007, 09:43 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Helen
John 3:16 + answers you. They go for refusing to believe on Christ. He paid for their sins. If they refuse that gift, then they do indeed die IN their sins, but they don't go to hell because of them; they go because they refused God's salvation through Christ.
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Why would they need salvation if their sins are paid for? What do they have to be saved from if justice is already served?
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The only destination if one refuses heaven is hell.
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Why? Why not simply some place that is not heaven but not hell? After all, hell was created for Satan and his demons.
It seems you are saying hell is a place of vengence, not justice.
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02-25-2007, 09:50 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Helen
Absolutely. And it was atoned for, but it will never be forgiven if it remains that person's choice.
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If justice is paid then why would it really matter if forgiveness takes place? After all, a person who's crime has been paid for doesn't go to jail simply because of their not being forgiven. And vice versa, a person doesn't avoid paying for their crime even if the victim forgives them.
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Atonement is justice. Christ satisfied all justice eternally. No insult/sin is left before God for eternity.
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Then what prevents them from entering heaven? God's justice has been satisfied but they can't come to heaven simply because He won't forgive them?
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However, there are sinners who will not be there. Some of us have accepted Christ's gift of salvation and truth.
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Why do we need salvation if our sins are paid for?
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Others have rejected. So while God's justice is satisfied nevertheless, their refusal to believe condemns them eternally.
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What are they condemned for if their sins have been paid? Unbelief? Nope it can't be that, because that sin has been paid for as well.
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