BaptistBoard.com  
     

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%
Register FAQ Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Left Container Right Container
 
Go Back   BaptistBoard.com > Baptist DEBATE Forums (Baptist Only) > Baptist Theology & Bible Study

Baptist Theology & Bible Study General discussion of Baptist theology

Fewer Ads for Registered Users - Register Now!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-10-2012, 11:27 AM
evangelist6589's Avatar
evangelist6589 evangelist6589 is offline
5,000 Posts Club
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,008
Send a message via AIM to evangelist6589
Default Progressive vs. Classical Dispensationalism

I bought a book called Dispensationalism by Charles Ryrie. It appears to be a graduate level read and has been around since 1966, however the version I have has ben updated to include a chapter on Progressive Dispensationalism. If I remember we studied this briefly in Eschatology in seminary however it was only brief as far more detail was given in the class on the Church or Ecclesiology. They read a book that was authored by Saucy whom I believe is a progressive Dispensationalist. I am tempted to do a google search, however I would get 50 different answers and definitions on progressive dispensationalism. I did not fully comprehend the chapter on the topic so may need to read it again. But can someone tell me what it is and how it is different from classical dispensationalism?


John
__________________
----
I am a slave of God and I serve as a street evangelist/open air street preacher. I have been through The Way of the Master basic training course twice. The WOTM evangelism philosophy is a great way to reach the lost. My life verse is Mark 16:15 which is the call to preach the gospel to all of creation (NIV). The best way is to use the Law to convict the consciences of sinners (Psa 19, Gal 3:24). The Law convicted Paul of sin (Rm 7:7, ESV). I challenge others to use it in their evangelism.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-10-2012, 03:00 PM
OldRegular OldRegular is offline
15,000 Posts Club
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 18,847
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelist6589 View Post
I bought a book called Dispensationalism by Charles Ryrie. It appears to be a graduate level read and has been around since 1966, however the version I have has ben updated to include a chapter on Progressive Dispensationalism. If I remember we studied this briefly in Eschatology in seminary however it was only brief as far more detail was given in the class on the Church or Ecclesiology. They read a book that was authored by Saucy whom I believe is a progressive Dispensationalist. I am tempted to do a google search, however I would get 50 different answers and definitions on progressive dispensationalism. I did not fully comprehend the chapter on the topic so may need to read it again. But can someone tell me what it is and how it is different from classical dispensationalism?


John
It appears to me that the major difference is that progressive dispensationalists do not view the Church as a "Mystery Parenthesis" in God's plan for Israel.

Seems to me Ryrie does a pretty good job of presenting the differences between the two doctrines.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-11-2012, 03:38 PM
Yeshua1 Yeshua1 is offline
10,000 Posts Club
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 14,505
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelist6589 View Post
I bought a book called Dispensationalism by Charles Ryrie. It appears to be a graduate level read and has been around since 1966, however the version I have has ben updated to include a chapter on Progressive Dispensationalism. If I remember we studied this briefly in Eschatology in seminary however it was only brief as far more detail was given in the class on the Church or Ecclesiology. They read a book that was authored by Saucy whom I believe is a progressive Dispensationalist. I am tempted to do a google search, however I would get 50 different answers and definitions on progressive dispensationalism. I did not fully comprehend the chapter on the topic so may need to read it again. But can someone tell me what it is and how it is different from classical dispensationalism?


John

Classic Dispy at times viewed the jews still saved under/by Covenant of the Law, while Gentiles now saved under new Covenant...

Classic Dispy at timesalso saw the church as brought into existence after isreal rejected jesus as messiah, as a secondary thought and plan...

Also, most classic Dispy see a pre trib pre mill second coming, with multiple "raptures/resurrections" happening in future

many in the Progressive movement see the Church has ALWAYS part of the eternal plans of God, as God always had a seperate agenda for Isreal/Church, many see that BOTH jews/gentiles under new covenant fior today, while many have gone to more viewing end times on a Historical pre Mil view, or at least debating the timing of the rapture!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-18-2012, 08:53 AM
Van Van is offline
6,000 Posts Club
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California
Posts: 6,615
Default

Progressives agree with Traditionalists that Christ will reign on earth for 1000 years, so we reject Amillennialism, and the hermeneutic that enables a less than literal-historic view of scripture.

On the other hand, Progressives reject the parenthetical view of the Christ, and believe God's plan of redemption for His chosen people includes those chosen before the New Covenant was inaugurated, and those chosen and placed in Christ under the new covenant. Thus we accept Romans 9-11 and Galatians 3 as written. All Israel is not a tribe or culture or Geo-political institution, but rather is God's chosen people who have been redeemed and made perfect by the blood of the Lamb.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-18-2012, 02:35 PM
Greektim's Avatar
Greektim Greektim is offline
2,000 Posts Club
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Honduras
Posts: 2,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelist6589 View Post
I bought a book called Dispensationalism by Charles Ryrie. It appears to be a graduate level read and has been around since 1966, however the version I have has ben updated to include a chapter on Progressive Dispensationalism. If I remember we studied this briefly in Eschatology in seminary however it was only brief as far more detail was given in the class on the Church or Ecclesiology. They read a book that was authored by Saucy whom I believe is a progressive Dispensationalist. I am tempted to do a google search, however I would get 50 different answers and definitions on progressive dispensationalism. I did not fully comprehend the chapter on the topic so may need to read it again. But can someone tell me what it is and how it is different from classical dispensationalism?


John
Undergraduate to lay level. And I would say that while I was a huge Ryrie fan.
__________________
Τιμοθεος

Worldview: Christian Hedonism
Hermeneutic: messianic & missional (cf. Luke 24:44-48)
Bibliology: ipsissima vox; Sturzian textual critic
Soteriology: 5 p. Calvinist; supralapsarian
Ecclesiology: reformed SBC; plurality, equality, & rule of elders
Eschatology: Amillennial; partial-preterist

"The gospel is not a way to get people to heaven; it is a way to get people to God… If we don't want God above all things, we have not been converted by the gospel.” -- John Piper
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-18-2012, 04:09 PM
Yeshua1 Yeshua1 is offline
10,000 Posts Club
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 14,505
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greektim View Post
Undergraduate to lay level. And I would say that while I was a huge Ryrie fan.
Think best source of classic dispy theology wriiten by Lewis Sperry Chafer , and supplanted by that from Dr Darrell Bock for progressive view!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-18-2012, 07:21 PM
Greektim's Avatar
Greektim Greektim is offline
2,000 Posts Club
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Honduras
Posts: 2,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldRegular View Post
It appears to me that the major difference is that progressive dispensationalists do not view the Church as a "Mystery Parenthesis" in God's plan for Israel.

Seems to me Ryrie does a pretty good job of presenting the differences between the two doctrines.
That would be a good observation. PD sees the church as continuing the kingdom program between Israel, Jesus, and the church rather than the church age as an interregnum period. It also emphasizes the already/not yet aspects of the kingdom (realized eschatology lite). And its hermeneutic is a bit more theological and literary along w/ grammatical historical.
__________________
Τιμοθεος

Worldview: Christian Hedonism
Hermeneutic: messianic & missional (cf. Luke 24:44-48)
Bibliology: ipsissima vox; Sturzian textual critic
Soteriology: 5 p. Calvinist; supralapsarian
Ecclesiology: reformed SBC; plurality, equality, & rule of elders
Eschatology: Amillennial; partial-preterist

"The gospel is not a way to get people to heaven; it is a way to get people to God… If we don't want God above all things, we have not been converted by the gospel.” -- John Piper
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-18-2012, 07:28 PM
Earth, Wind & Fire's Avatar
Earth, Wind & Fire Earth, Wind & Fire is online now
15,000 Posts Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Home of America’s Most Busted Governor
Posts: 16,101
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greektim View Post
That would be a good observation. PD sees the church as continuing the kingdom program between Israel, Jesus, and the church rather than the church age as an interregnum period. It also emphasizes the already/not yet aspects of the kingdom (realized eschatology lite). And its hermeneutic is a bit more theological and literary along w/ grammatical historical.
Bluntly....arent they both nuts?
__________________
"The Word Dwells Among Us"
In the poor, in the hope of the unemployed, in the courage of the oppressed, in the presence of each other


"Were it not for God's choosing some, Heaven would have none." (Jer 13:23; John 6:38-9, 44)

Hosea 10:12
12 Sow for yourselves righteousness;
Reap in mercy;
Break up your fallow ground,
For it is time to seek the Lord,
Till He comes and rains righteousness on you.


“God is with me wherever I go.” ---George Whitefield, 1739
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-19-2012, 04:07 AM
John of Japan's Avatar
John of Japan John of Japan is offline
10,000 Posts Club
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 10,721
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth, Wind & Fire View Post
Bluntly....arent they both nuts?
Only if you oppose their theology.
__________________
"Trust me. I know what I'm doing." Sledge Hammer
"If there be any one point in which the Christian church ought to keep its fervour at a white heat, it is concerning missions to the heathens." Charles Spurgeon
"Certainty of death. Small chance of success. What are we waiting for?" Gimli, "Return of the King"
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-19-2012, 04:11 AM
John of Japan's Avatar
John of Japan John of Japan is offline
10,000 Posts Club
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 10,721
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeshua1 View Post
Think best source of classic dispy theology wriiten by Lewis Sperry Chafer , and supplanted by that from Dr Darrell Bock for progressive view!
I assume you mean his sys. theo. Did Chafer write anything short on dispensationalism?

I would say Dispensationalism Today by Charles Ryrie and Progressive Dispensationalism by Craig Blaising and Darrell Bock. The Greatness of the Kingdom by Alva McClain is a classic also.
__________________
"Trust me. I know what I'm doing." Sledge Hammer
"If there be any one point in which the Christian church ought to keep its fervour at a white heat, it is concerning missions to the heathens." Charles Spurgeon
"Certainty of death. Small chance of success. What are we waiting for?" Gimli, "Return of the King"

Last edited by John of Japan; 10-19-2012 at 04:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:51 AM.


The Fundamental Top 500   The Best Baptist Web Sites at Baptist411.com  
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Style Copyright: Wrestling Clique Wrestling Forum
Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
 

Web Hosting for BaptistBoard.com is provided by BaptistHost.net