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  #1  
Old 11-11-2012, 12:10 PM
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tomana tomana is offline
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Default Dispensationalism vs Ultra (Hyper) Dispensationalism

Dispensationalism defined:

Its beginnings are usually associated with the Plymouth Brethren movement in the UK and the teachings of John Nelson Darby (circa mid to late 1800's). It then branched out to become what we are seeing today ... Ultra (or Hyper) Dispensationalism (they will argue that they are not of the Ultra flavor, but they are).

Examples of the error that they teach can easily be found on the website of one of the most popular of this movement's present day teachers ... Les Feldick.

"Adam loved his Creator; but he loved his beautiful helpmeet more, and he thought he was about to lose her. So he had to choose, and he decided he'd rather eat the forbidden fruit and violate the Word of God than lose her and remain obedient. (www.lesfeldick.org/lesqa-a.html#7a)"

Here is the reason God gives for Adam having eaten the forbidden fruit:

Gen 3:17
And unto Adam he said, " Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake"

'Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife ..." or in other words, she talked him into it.

To understand the main errors taught by the Ultra-Dispensational movement (that claims it is not, but is) I copied the following from a doc called, "Wrongly Dividing The Word of Truth" by H.A. Ironside (an early Dispensationalist who refuted the teachings of the Ultra/Hyper movement of his day) ...

First, inasmuch as our Lord Jesus was "a minister of the circumcision to confirm the promises made to the fathers," it is insisted that the four Gospels are entirely Jewish and have no real message for the Church, the Body of Christ. All might not put it quite as boldly as this, but certainly their disciples go to the limit in repudiating the authority of the Gospels.

Secondly, it is maintained that the book of Acts covers a transition period between the dispensation of the law and the dispensation of the mystery; that is, that in the book of Acts we do not have the Church, the Body of Christ, but that the word "ekklesia" (church, or assembly), as used in that book, refers to a different Church altogether to that of Paul's prison epistles. This earlier Church is simply an aspect of the kingdom and is not the same as the Body of Christ!

Third, it is contended that Paul did not receive his special revelation of the mystery of the Body until his imprisonment in Rome, and that his prison epistles alone reveal this truth and are, strictly speaking, the only portion of the Holy Scriptures given to members of the Body. All of the other epistles of Paul, save those written during his imprisonment and the general epistles, are relegated to the earlier dispensation of the book of Acts, and have no permanent value for us, but were for the instruction of the so-called Jewish church of that time.

Fourth, the entire book of Revelation has to do with the coming age and has no reference to the Church today. Even the letters to the seven churches in Asia, which are distinctly said to be "the things which are," are, according to this system, to be considered as "the things which are not," and will not be until the Church, the Body of Christ, is removed from this world. Then, it is contended, these seven churches will appear on the earth as Jewish churches in the Great Tribulation.

Fifth, the Body of Christ is altogether a different company, according to these teachers, from the Bride of the Lamb, the latter being supposed to be Jewish.

Sixth, the Christian ordinances, having been given before Paul is supposed to have received his revelation of the mystery in prison, have no real connection with the present economy, and therefore, are relegated to the past, and may again have a place in the future Great Tribulation

The full write up can be viewed here : http://www.cnonline.net/~rkmiller/ul...m-ironside.htm

an excellent write up (by a Baptist) which clearly reveals the thinking/reaction tendancies of hyper-dispensationalists can be found here >>> http://www.angelfire.com/nt/books/hy...tionalism.html

Last edited by tomana; 11-11-2012 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:11 PM
Yeshua1 Yeshua1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomana View Post
Dispensationalism defined:

Its beginnings are usually associated with the Plymouth Brethren movement in the UK and the teachings of John Nelson Darby (circa mid to late 1800's). It then branched out to become what we are seeing today ... Ultra (or Hyper) Dispensationalism (they will argue that they are not of the Ultra flavor, but they are).

Examples of the error that they teach can easily be found on the website of one of the most popular of this movement's present day teachers ... Les Feldick.

"Adam loved his Creator; but he loved his beautiful helpmeet more, and he thought he was about to lose her. So he had to choose, and he decided he'd rather eat the forbidden fruit and violate the Word of God than lose her and remain obedient. (www.lesfeldick.org/lesqa-a.html#7a)"

Here is the reason God gives for Adam having eaten the forbidden fruit:

Gen 3:17
And unto Adam he said, " Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake"

'Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife ..." or in other words, she talked him into it.

To understand the main errors taught by the Ultra-Dispensational movement (that claims it is not, but is) I copied the following from a doc called, "Wrongly Dividing The Word of Truth" by H.A. Ironside (an early Dispensationalist who refuted the teachings of the Ultra/Hyper movement of his day) ...

First, inasmuch as our Lord Jesus was "a minister of the circumcision to confirm the promises made to the fathers," it is insisted that the four Gospels are entirely Jewish and have no real message for the Church, the Body of Christ. All might not put it quite as boldly as this, but certainly their disciples go to the limit in repudiating the authority of the Gospels.

Secondly, it is maintained that the book of Acts covers a transition period between the dispensation of the law and the dispensation of the mystery; that is, that in the book of Acts we do not have the Church, the Body of Christ, but that the word "ekklesia" (church, or assembly), as used in that book, refers to a different Church altogether to that of Paul's prison epistles. This earlier Church is simply an aspect of the kingdom and is not the same as the Body of Christ!

Third, it is contended that Paul did not receive his special revelation of the mystery of the Body until his imprisonment in Rome, and that his prison epistles alone reveal this truth and are, strictly speaking, the only portion of the Holy Scriptures given to members of the Body. All of the other epistles of Paul, save those written during his imprisonment and the general epistles, are relegated to the earlier dispensation of the book of Acts, and have no permanent value for us, but were for the instruction of the so-called Jewish church of that time.

Fourth, the entire book of Revelation has to do with the coming age and has no reference to the Church today. Even the letters to the seven churches in Asia, which are distinctly said to be "the things which are," are, according to this system, to be considered as "the things which are not," and will not be until the Church, the Body of Christ, is removed from this world. Then, it is contended, these seven churches will appear on the earth as Jewish churches in the Great Tribulation.

Fifth, the Body of Christ is altogether a different company, according to these teachers, from the Bride of the Lamb, the latter being supposed to be Jewish.

Sixth, the Christian ordinances, having been given before Paul is supposed to have received his revelation of the mystery in prison, have no real connection with the present economy, and therefore, are relegated to the past, and may again have a place in the future Great Tribulation

The full write up can be viewed here : http://www.cnonline.net/~rkmiller/ul...m-ironside.htm

an excellent write up (by a Baptist) which clearly reveals the thinking/reaction tendancies of hyper-dispensationalists can be found here >>> http://www.angelfire.com/nt/books/hy...tionalism.html
Hypers see ONLY pauline letters as applicable to the church, and that church founded in later part of NT, NOT pentacost, so NO ordinances such as water baptism/communion!

Strange bible, as Gospel written to jews only, as were all but pauline letters!
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:49 PM
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jilphn1022 jilphn1022 is offline
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Default More Light on Dispyland

(Hi all, here's something hot that just turned up on my computer screen.)

Pretrib Rapture Pride

by Bruce Rockwell

Pretrib rapture promoters like Thomas Ice give the impression they know more than the early Church Fathers, the Reformers, the greatest Greek New Testament scholars including those who produced the KJV Bible, the founders of their favorite Bible schools, and even their own mentors!
Ice's mentor, Dallas Sem. president John Walvoord, couldn't find anyone holding to pretrib before 1830 - and Walvoord called John Darby and his Brethren followers "the early pretribulationists" (RQ, pp. 160-62). Ice belittles Walvoord and claims that several pre-1830 persons, including "Pseudo-Ephraem" and a "Rev. Morgan Edwards," taught a pretrib rapture. Even though the first one viewed Antichrist's arrival as the only "imminent" event, Ice (and Grant Jeffrey) audaciously claim he expected an "imminent" pretrib rapture! And Ice (and John Bray) have covered up Edwards' historicism which made a pretrib rapture impossible! Google historian Dave MacPherson's "Deceiving and Being Deceived" for documentation on these and similar historical distortions.
The same pretrib defenders, when combing ancient books, deviously read "pretrib" into phrases like "before Armageddon," "before the final conflagration," and "escape all these things"!
BTW, the KJV translators' other writings found in London's famed British Library (where MacPherson has researched) don't have even a hint of pretrib rapturism. Is it possible that Ice etc. have found pretrib "proof" in the KJV that its translators never found?
Pretrib merchandisers like Ice claim that nothing is better pretrib proof than Rev. 3:10. They also cover up "Famous Rapture Watchers" (on Google) which shows how the greatest Greek NT scholars of all time interpreted it.
Pretrib didn't flourish in America much before the 1909 Scofield Bible which has pretribby "explanatory notes" in its margins. Not seen in the margins was jailed forger Scofield's criminal record throughout his life that David Lutzweiler has documented in his recent book "The Praise of Folly" which is available online.
Biola University's doctrinal statement says Christ's return is "premillennial" and "before the Tribulation." Although universities stand for "academic freedom," Biola has added these narrow, restrictive phrases - non-essentials the founders purposely didn't include in their original doctrinal statement when Biola was just a small Bible institute! And other Christian schools have also belittled their founders.
Ice, BTW, has a "Ph.D" issued by a tiny Texas school that wasn't authorized to issue degrees! Ice now says that he's working on another "Ph.D" via the University of Wales in Britain. For light on the degrees of Ice's scholarliness, Google "Bogus degree scandal prompts calls to wind up University of Wales," "Thomas Ice (Bloopers)," "be careful in polemics - Peripatetic Learning," and "Walvoord Melts Ice." Also Google "Thomas Ice (Hired Gun)" - featured by media luminary Joe Ortiz on his Jan. 30, 2013 "End Times Passover" blog.
Other fascinating Google articles include "The Unoriginal John Darby," "X-raying Margaret," "Edward Irving in Unnerving," "Pretrib Rapture Politics," "Pretrib Rapture Secrets," "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty," "Pretrib Hypocrisy," "Pretrib Rapture Secrecy," and "Roots of Warlike Christian Zionism" - most from the author of "The Rapture Plot," the most accurate documentation on pretrib rapture history.
Can anyone guess who the last proud pretrib rapture holdout will be?
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