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  #1  
Old 10-03-2013, 05:25 PM
JohnnyReb JohnnyReb is offline
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Default " shacking up" and marriage in the eyes of God

Brothers I am a little torn in what to think about a situation that has arose in my Church. A family has been attending for a few months now....even before I started attending. They are as good of a family as I have ever seen. Have 2 children who love the Church and never miss a service. They volunteer without being asked and regularly help with cleaning and have a few times cleaned the whole chuch alone without anyone even knowing. Anyway the point is they are a wonderfull family that has been a real blessing.

Problem is I recently learned they are not LEGALLY married. On the other hand they are a loving and functional family and not " shacking up" for the sake of sex ect. There intentions seem to be genuine and I can find no fault in their lifestyle other than not being legally married. I had a private discussion with the man and he gave me some interesting reasons for what they are doing.

1. He believes that living together outside of marriage is a sin. He believes that he is married to the woman because he has made a oath to God personally in regard to their relationship. He agrees that in the beginning he and her were committing adultery but has since then seeked forgiveness and has gotten saved. After that they agreed that they had become one flesh after bearing a child and have stayed together as a family and as husband and wife.

2. He believes that if the Government will recognize and issue a marriage license to homosexual couples.....what significance does it have in his marriage.

Now his reason number 2 has really set my brain to work! It seems that if the government that rules over us has no concern over what a marriage really is then what authority does it even have?? Does a peice of paper from the courthouse really make any difference in the eyes of a God when the same court house is issuing marriage licenses to " questionable relations"? His explanation really makes me wonder. Adam and Eve didn't have a marriage license from the court house yet they were married and became one flesh. If a marriage license is all so important to be married....then what role does God even have in it. Is the license more important than the oath the two people make to one another and to God?

Maybe I'm feeling this way because I like the family. I will continue to treat them with love regardless. I do not plan to council them on the subject because that is the church leaderships job....but am trying to work out my own personal feelings about it. I've always been a black and white person....something either is wrong or it isn't. But this situation had really got me wondering

100 years ago I would have said flat out living in sin. But today with the government dabbling in every aspect of our lives I just wonder if it isn't smart to leave the government out of your marriage and family life

NOTE: also consider the context of what I'm saying here. This isn't a young couple shacked just having relations. They are a working and functioning family who just doesn't want Uncle Sam involved in their " relationship". I personally have witnessed good fruits produced by them. I by no means am endorsing shacking up but in a situation where the INTENT in genuine I have mixed emotions

Last edited by JohnnyReb; 10-03-2013 at 05:34 PM.
  #2  
Old 10-03-2013, 05:29 PM
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Amy.G Amy.G is offline
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Interesting. You got me thinking too.

Along the same lines, does a divorce issued by the court house mean one is divorced in God's eyes?
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  #3  
Old 10-03-2013, 05:47 PM
Yeshua1 Yeshua1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy.G View Post
Interesting. You got me thinking too.

Along the same lines, does a divorce issued by the court house mean one is divorced in God's eyes?
Believe that God ordained marriage for mankind, so he will honor whatever the culture views as acceptable ways to marry/divorce...

So if the US allows a judge to divorce , he honors/permits that, but also allows them to reconcile and remarry!
  #4  
Old 10-03-2013, 05:48 PM
Yeshua1 Yeshua1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
Brothers I am a little torn in what to think about a situation that has arose in my Church. A family has been attending for a few months now....even before I started attending. They are as good of a family as I have ever seen. Have 2 children who love the Church and never miss a service. They volunteer without being asked and regularly help with cleaning and have a few times cleaned the whole chuch alone without anyone even knowing. Anyway the point is they are a wonderfull family that has been a real blessing.

Problem is I recently learned they are not LEGALLY married. On the other hand they are a loving and functional family and not " shacking up" for the sake of sex ect. There intentions seem to be genuine and I can find no fault in their lifestyle other than not being legally married. I had a private discussion with the man and he gave me some interesting reasons for what they are doing.

1. He believes that living together outside of marriage is a sin. He believes that he is married to the woman because he has made a oath to God personally in regard to their relationship. He agrees that in the beginning he and her were committing adultery but has since then seeked forgiveness and has gotten saved. After that they agreed that they had become one flesh after bearing a child and have stayed together as a family and as husband and wife.

2. He believes that if the Government will recognize and issue a marriage license to homosexual couples.....what significance does it have in his marriage.

Now his reason number 2 has really set my brain to work! It seems that if the government that rules over us has no concern over what a marriage really is then what authority does it even have?? Does a peice of paper from the courthouse really make any difference in the eyes of a God when the same court house is issuing marriage licenses to " questionable relations"? His explanation really makes me wonder. Adam and Eve didn't have a marriage license from the court house yet they were married and became one flesh. If a marriage license is all so important to be married....then what role does God even have in it. Is the license more important than the oath the two people make to one another and to God?

Maybe I'm feeling this way because I like the family. I will continue to treat them with love regardless. I do not plan to council them on the subject because that is the church leaderships job....but am trying to work out my own personal feelings about it. I've always been a black and white person....something either is wrong or it isn't. But this situation had really got me wondering

100 years ago I would have said flat out living in sin. But today with the government dabbling in every aspect of our lives I just wonder if it isn't smart to leave the government out of your marriage and family life

NOTE: also consider the context of what I'm saying here. This isn't a young couple shacked just having relations. They are a working and functioning family who just doesn't want Uncle Sam involved in their " relationship". I personally have witnessed good fruits produced by them. I by no means am endorsing shacking up but in a situation where the INTENT in genuine I have mixed emotions
IF they agree to treat each other as brother/sister, NO sexual activity, would be acceptabvle, but how many couples live together without doing that?
  #5  
Old 10-03-2013, 05:51 PM
JohnnyReb JohnnyReb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy.G View Post
Interesting. You got me thinking too.

Along the same lines, does a divorce issued by the court house mean one is divorced in God's eyes?
Good question! Is it the judge who issues a divorce or is it the couple and God who issue a divorce.

If a man or woman leaves their spouse for another has the marriage been abolished already or does a judge have divine power ??
  #6  
Old 10-03-2013, 05:52 PM
JohnnyReb JohnnyReb is offline
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Originally Posted by Yeshua1 View Post
IF they agree to treat each other as brother/sister, NO sexual activity, would be acceptabvle, but how many couples live together without doing that?

I'm sure they do engage in activity. BUT....they are living as a family and producing good fruits and not living together just for relations. They also consider themselves married and are completely devoted to oem another and their kids. They also have lived as a family for several years. This is why I'm a little soft on them because their intentions are genuine and true and the only thing they are lacking is a peice of paper. To him the paper is meaningless and his personal oath to God and his family are what's important. I'm having a hard time telling him he is wrong

Last edited by JohnnyReb; 10-03-2013 at 05:58 PM.
  #7  
Old 10-03-2013, 06:08 PM
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Zaac Zaac is offline
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Emotionally this one might tug at us because of what's going on in the country as pertains to marriage.

But remove the emotion and we are still called to obey the authority that is over us as long as they aren't asking you to do something in opposition to God. Thus a couple IN THE CHURCH should seek whatever formal governmental recognition is available for the sake of not breeding confusion.

By their example. could one rightly justify to two 16 year olds why they aren't married and free to have sex with one another or why two 30 somethings who have chosen to shack up and have sex aren't married just because they say they are committed?

If we start picking and choosing what we are not going to obey based upon emotion rather than Scripture, then no one need listen to anything we say Scripture commands.

We don't live in accordance to what the government is doing.

Quote:
NOTE: also consider the context of what I'm saying here. This isn't a young couple shacked just having relations. They are a working and functioning family who just doesn't want Uncle Sam involved in their " relationship". I personally have witnessed good fruits produced by them. I by no means am endorsing shacking up but in a situation where the INTENT in genuine I have mixed emotions
None of the above matters. Obedience is better than sacrifice. If they have not done what the authorities over them require, then they are being disobedient and giving the appearance of evil and breeding confusion that is not of God.

Why did he tell you that he wasn't LEGALLY married?
  #8  
Old 10-03-2013, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
I'm sure they do engage in activity. BUT....they are living as a family and producing good fruits and not living together just for relations. They also consider themselves married and are completely devoted to oem another and their kids. They also have lived as a family for several years. This is why I'm a little soft on them because their intentions are genuine and true and the only thing they are lacking is a peice of paper. To him the paper is meaningless and his personal oath to God and his family are what's important. I'm having a hard time telling him he is wrong
You better get over it and lovingly tell him he is wrong.
  #9  
Old 10-03-2013, 06:16 PM
preacher4truth preacher4truth is offline
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Bless their hearts and I hope you all continue to love them.

I'd say they need come to the fact and conclude that they should obey God given ordinances though and set aside their excuses about the 'alternates' and other things.
  #10  
Old 10-03-2013, 06:22 PM
JohnnyReb JohnnyReb is offline
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All good points and thanks for the input.
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