“Saint” Mandela? Not So Fast!

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by Revmitchell, Dec 5, 2013.

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  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
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    ...What is it about Nelson Mandela the man that justifies this global adoration? To be sure, his mien contributes; he is tall, dignified, and statesman-like in appearance, gracious in public speech, and grandfatherly in tone. He does not exude the radical, self-promotional hucksterism of, say, Al Sharpton, Zimbabwe’s Robert Mugabe, or the ANC’s current head, Jacob Zuma. And, yes, he served many years in prison, but not merely for opposing injustice and racism, as his legions of hagiographers would have us believe. He was a leader of the African National Congress (ANC), an organization designated a terrorist group by the U.S. State Department and many governments and intelligence agencies. He was also a co-founder of the ANC’s Umkhonto we Sizwe (Spear of the Nation), a militant terrorist group within a terrorist group. He was tried and convicted for his terrorist and subversive activities within those organizations (more on which in a moment).

    Countless thousands of genuine prisoners of conscience, who have never done anything more “criminal” than praying, or speaking out against tyranny, are languishing in prisons all across the planet without so much as a peep of protest from the legions of Mandela worshipers and his chorus of media promoters. How many of those praising Mandela as the world’s moral compass have ever heard of Ignatius Cardinal Kung, the Roman Catholic Bishop of Shanghai, who was imprisoned in Communist China for 33 years, most of it overlapping the same period in which Mandela was in prison? Cardinal Kung’s heroic incarceration was in many ways more severe than that faced by Mandela, but no media love-fest awaited him when he was released in 1988. Ditto for Dr. Oscar Elias Biscet, a black Cuban physician who was released from Fidel Castro’s prison system in 2011 after brutal captivity for the “crime” of criticizing the island’s communist regime. But did Nelson Mandela chastise his comrades in Beijing and Havana when he visited there, or did he bring up the plight of the countless political and religious prisoners in their gulags? If so, there is no public record or it, though there is plenty on record of him praising those oppressive regimes.

    Mandela: Communist, Terrorist, Liar

    This leads us directly to one of the most important issues concerning Nelson Mandela: Was he a Communist with a capital “C,” meaning a disciplined member of the Communist Party, which, in this case means the South African Communist Party (SACP)? In the 1958 treason trial, Nelson Mandela denied being a member of the SACP, a denial he has repeated many times since, and has maintained to the end. His defenders fall into two general categories on this issue, those who believe his denial and those who say, in effect, “So what? What does it matter if he was/is a Communist?”

    Those who say they believe his denial must ignore an overwhelming mountain of evidence to the contrary, much of which has been available for decades and much which has only recently come to light from: previously unavailable SACP records; government archives of Communist countries; memoirs and biographies of, and interviews with, SACP and ANC members of the period.

    Those who say “So what?” to the question of Mandela’s membership in the SACP must ignore the well established facts that show:

    • The SACP was, and remains, a hardcore Marxist-Leninist organization in which all members must pledge unquestioned obedience to the will of the Party, as determined by its Central Committee;

    • The SACP took its direction from the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU), and, as such, was an agent of a hostile foreign power;

    • SACP members, including Mandela, secretly took control of the ANC, pushing aside and sabotaging ANC leaders committed to reform and change through peaceful, political means;

    • ANC and its terrorist arm, Umkhonto we Sizwe (MK), which was also controlled by the SACP, were trained in Soviet Russia and Red China, or in Communist “Frontline States” — Zambia, Angola, Mozambique, Tanzania, Zimbabwe — by Soviet, Chinese, East German, Cuban, Czech, and other Communist instructors;

    • The SACP-controlled ANC and MK exploited the conditions of apartheid, racism and colonialism not to help South African blacks, but to further the objectives of the Soviet Union and the world Communist conspiracy;

    • The SACP-controlled ANC and MK used the Communist-provided training and arms to direct their terror, torture, and murder against South Africa’s black majority even more often than against the white minority;

    • If Mandela was not only a Communist Party member, but also a top SACP leader — which the evidence irresistibly shows he was — then he is not only a colossal and persistent liar, but he is all the more culpable in the innumerable acts of terror, torture, and murder committed by ANC mobs and MK cadres over the past several decades;

    • Mandela has bequeathed South Africa a one-party state ruled by the increasingly tyrannical and kleptocratic ANC/SACP, which is leading the country down the path toward economic destruction, record-level violent crime, chaos, and genocide.

    The coming wave of terror and genocide

    The last point mentioned above is especially relevant, since the ostensible purpose of the ANC/SACP revolution was to ameliorate the plight of the disadvantaged black population. Instead, they are transforming what was by far the most prosperous state in Africa (and the one to which black Africans were fleeing to escape Red/black oppression, despite South Africa’s apartheid system then in place) into a corrupt despotism with: squashing of dissent; looting of the treasury by top government officials; sky-high unemployment; increasing poverty and homelessness; some of the world’s highest rates of murder, rape, robbery, kidnapping, car-jacking; and the world’s highest HIV/AIDS infection rates.

    Resolving the issue of Mandela’s role in the SACP is all the more important when viewed in its proper historical context, which is in the context of the Cold War and the Soviet’s aggressive campaigns in the Third World through “wars of national liberation.” During that period the Communists were killing tens of millions of their own subjects in what Professor R. J. Rummel calls “democide,” or mass murder by government.

    Dr. Rummel, who has painstakingly catalogued the top 15 of the mega-murderer regimes, puts the number of their victims during the 20th century at a conservative estimate of more than 151 million — and that was only up to 1987. The vast majority of those were slaughtered by Communist regimes that claimed to be the forces of “liberation.” A significant portion of that slaughter took place in Africa by those same forces of liberation. And it hasn’t ended. In fact, as we have reported, the stark ominous signs, as cited by genocide experts, are that the ANC is preparing to unleash a Communist-style genocide campaign in the “Rainbow Nation” against the remaining white population (see here and here) that will surely also be directed against Indians, Chinese, and millions of blacks.

    The genocide campaign against white South Africans has already been underway for several years, but has not yet reached the all-out intensity of the slaughter stages witnessed in Rwanda, Burundi, or Sierra Leone. But that time may be coming soon, and if it does, Nelson Mandela will have helped to launch it. Chilling video footage of Mandela singing an ANC/MK genocide song about killing whites belies the sainted image.

    Similarly, in another stunning video, Mandela’s longtime comrade in the ANC and the SACP (and current president of South Africa) Jacob Zuma, sings “Kill the Boer,” meaning kill the white farmer. Even more chilling than the words of the murderous song is the near frenzied behavior it stirs up in many of the assembled mob members. This is clearly incitement to genocide by the top members of South Africa’s ANC ruling regime, the same individuals who incessantly pose as peace advocates. (See both of the videos imbedded at the bottom of this article.)

    Yet, the "hate speech" police in our media, who are quick to pounce on any real or fabricated racial or "homophobic" gaffe by politicians, celebrities, or common citizens, have hypocritically ignored the Mandela/Zuma genocide endorsements — or have attempted to exonerate them of any malice with lame excuses about the songs being mere cultural/political slogans.


    http://www.thenewamerican.com/world.../15888-saint-mandela-not-so-fast?limitstart=0
     
  2. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Mandela could not have done the things he did in the manner in which he did them without faith in Christ, which he expressed often, nor could he have done them if he was the "dedicated communist" this piece and others attempt to make him. This is nothing but a pathetic effort to smear a good, godly man who made the same kind of mistakes in his time on Earth that many men, Christian and non-Christian, make in theirs.

    Nonsense like this is to be rejected and ignored. Mandela may not have been the saint, the near-angel, his people wanted him to be, but he was not a terrorist and communist when he helped walk South Africa into the modern age as her leader, either.
     
    #2 thisnumbersdisconnected, Dec 6, 2013
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  3. Crabtownboy

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    You have to remember the OP poster refuses to condemn white supremacy, so I was expecting a post like this from him.

    Mandela showed forgiveness far away and above what we see normally in our world.

    Mandela:

    1. Could have set up a one party dictatorship. He did not. He brought multiparty democracy to South Africa.
    2. He could have set up a socialist economy. He did not. He set up a Capitalist economy.
    3. He could have set up an apartheid government against the Whites. He did not. He established peace through a reconciliation panel. Even his most ardent critics within South Africa admit this.

    Mandela quotes:

    “Social equality is the only basis of human happiness.” (A letter written on August 1, 1970)

    “I came to accept that I have no right whatsoever to judge others in terms of my own customs.” (From his unpublished autobiographical manuscript, 1975)

    "Great anger and violence can never build a nation. We are striving to proceed in a manner and towards a result, which will ensure that all our people, both black and white, emerge as victors.” (Speech to European Parliament, 1990)

    “Without democracy there cannot be peace.” (South Africa, May 9, 1992)

    “We are fighting for a society where people will cease thinking in terms of colour.” (March 8, 1993)

    "Reconciliation means working together to correct the legacy of past injustice.” (December 16, 1995)

    "For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others." (From Long Walk to Freedom, 1995)

    "If you want to make peace with your enemy, you have to work with your enemy. Then he becomes your partner." (From Long Walk to Freedom, 1995)
     
    #3 Crabtownboy, Dec 6, 2013
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  4. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Irrelevant. Nor true, for that matter, given that what is truly "white supremacy" hasn't existed in this country for the last 40 years.
     
  5. Revmitchell

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    This was the only source for this story I saw but I have never heard something like this about him before. I guess the thing that interested me was the details of the accusations. They are pretty specific.
     
  6. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    I'd beware of your source, Rev. For example, most of the Tea Party Caucus members in Congress get a mere 50% approval rating from them. To say they are extreme -- and perhaps reactionary -- is bordering on an understatement.
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    They may be. I am not suggesting any of this is right. And much of it is sourced.
     
  8. Revmitchell

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  9. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    How about this post-Civil War song popular in the South:

    O, I'm a Good Old Rebel

    O, I'm a good old Rebel,
    Now that's just what I am,
    For this "Fair Land of Freedom"
    I do not care at all;

    I'm glad I fit against it --
    I only wish we'd won,
    And I don't want no pardon
    For anything I done.

    I hates the Constitution,
    This Great Republic too,
    I hates the Freedman's Buro,
    In uniforms of blue;

    I hates the nasty eagle,
    With all his brags and fuss,
    The lyin', thievin' Yankees,
    I hates 'em wuss and wuss.

    I hates the Yankee nation
    And everything they do,
    I hates the Declaration
    Of Independence too;

    I hates the glorious Union --
    'Tis dripping with our blood --
    I hates their striped banner,
    I fit it all I could.

    I followed old mass' Robert
    For four year, near about,
    Got wounded in three places
    And starved at Pint Lookout;

    I cotch the rheumatism
    A campin' in the snow,
    But I killed a chance of Yankees,
    I'd like to kill some mo'.

    Three hundred thousand Yankees
    Is stiff in Southern dust;
    We got three hundred thousand
    Before they conquered us;

    They died of Southern fever
    And Southern steel and shot,
    I wish they was three million
    Instead of what we got.

    I can't take up my musket
    And fight 'em now no more,
    But I ain't going to love 'em,
    Now that is sarten sure;

    And I don't want no pardon
    For what I was and am,
    I won't be reconstructed
    And I don't care a damn. ​

    Mandela's fellow revolutionaries were guilty of some heinous acts, and for all we know, so was Mandela. Like the Southern Rebel of the U.S., they were at war, and there is not accounting for what men do in war. But the man who came out of that prison was a changed man, a man who was determined to love apartheid into submission, and man whom Christ had rescued.

    Are any of us the same man or woman we were before Christ changed us?

    Lord, please, I hope not.
     
    #9 thisnumbersdisconnected, Dec 6, 2013
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  10. Bro. Curtis

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    Mandela's leadership proves the same thing I have been saying for years. You don't bring down military regimes by sanctioning the people. He starved a lot of people to death, the same as Clinton. And they were completely ineffective. That is a legit beef.
     
  11. Bro. Curtis

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    “From its earliest days, the Cuban Revolution has also been a source of inspiration to all freedom-loving people. We admire the sacrifices of the Cuban people in maintaining their independence and sovereignty in the face of the vicious imperialist-orquestrated campaign to destroy the impressive gain made in the Cuban Revolution….Long live the Cuban Revolution. Long live comrade Fidel Castro.”


    http://lanic.utexas.edu/project/castro/db/1991/19910726-1.html
     
  12. church mouse guy

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    Joseph Farah of WND said this about Mandela,

    I think that the evidence is widespread.
     
  13. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    I'm glad you people aren't allowed to sit in judgment of those who would be Christ's faithful when they come to the local church seeking Him. You'd never let them past the front door.

    "Attending communist talks and parties, Mandela was impressed that Europeans, Africans, Indians and Coloureds were mixing as equals. However, he stated later that he did not join the Party because its atheism conflicted with his Christian faith, and because he saw the South African struggle as being racially based rather than class warfare." [Emphasis added]-- Mandela, Nelson (1994). Long Walk to Freedom Volume I: 1918–1962. Little, Brown and Company. ISBN 978-0754087236.

    Good grief, people, get a grip!! Like I said, earlier ...

    Any of you ever belong to a group, commit an act, engage in a movement, or otherwise choose a path that, upon becoming a Christian, you deeply regretted? Can you change that? More importantly, are you now changed?

    Regardless of what Mandela did in the course of attempting to buy freedom at gunpoint for his people, his Christian faith convicted him that the method was wrong, and the affiliation with the communists would not work. There are many who want to deconstruct Mandela. Ask yourselves, "Why?" Weigh their agenda and their words carefully. It is obvious that Mandela was a changed man, regardless of whether your agree with that or not.
     
    #13 thisnumbersdisconnected, Dec 6, 2013
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  14. Crabtownboy

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    Very good post. Thank you.
     
  15. Bro. Curtis

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    I hope you are not including me in that list. I said there are legit beefs with the guy. The quote I put up is from 3/26/1991. And I never questioned his faith.
     
    #15 Bro. Curtis, Dec 6, 2013
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  16. pinoybaptist

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    Thank you for asking a pertinent question, rev.
    I've had reservations about Mandela, I mean, the adulation and everything.
    For me, and maybe a lot of others, there is no one who can take the place of Christ and Christ only.
    Anyone I place above Him is an idol.
    The world is welcome to sigh and give Mandela the 'beautiful eyes'.
    I refuse to.
     
  17. church mouse guy

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  18. Crabtownboy

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  19. church mouse guy

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    You would have to ask Bill O'Reilly and the other sources--I am merely quoting them that Mandela was a communist and a high-ranking one. We have a link posted above of his remarks in Cuba in support of communism there.

    Maybe, CTB, he was politically too weak to put communism in place. I am not defending O'Reilly because he is a religious leftist but it is strange that someone like O'Reilly so deep into the Ivy League manner of thinking would make this comment on Mandela.
     
  20. Crabtownboy

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    When he took office he could have done anything he wanted to do, including declaring himself King. He had a blank slate and he chose Capitalism and a multi-party state. That speaks more than anything any of his detractors say. Also, he has said that he is a Christian. Setting up 'truth and reconciliation commission' instead of throwing opponents and former enemies in jail and executing many of them is not the Communist method. I would say setting up what was basically a 'forgiveness committee' was much more Christian than Communist.

     
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