“The End Of The Lord”

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by NetChaplain, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    We are all prone to forget the weighty fact that “God trieth the righteous.” He withdraweth not His eyes from them.” We are in our Father’s hands and under His eye continually. We are the objects of His deep, tender and unchanging love; but we are also the subjects of His wise moral government. His dealings with us are varied. They are sometimes corrective; always instructive.

    We may be bent on some course of our own, the end of which would be moral ruin. The Father intervenes and withdraws us from our purpose. He dashes into fragments our air-built castles, dissipates our golden dreams and interrupts our darling scheme on which our hearts were set, and which would have proved to be certain destruction. “Lo, all these things worketh God oftentimes with man, to bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living” (Job 33:29, 30).

    In turning for a moment to Hebrews 12:3-12, we find much vital instruction on the subject of our Father’s dealing with His beloved people. Here are presented three distinct ways in which we may meet His chastening hand. We may “despise” it, as though his hand and His voice were not in it; we may “faint” under it, as though it were intolerable and not the precious fruit of His love; or lastly, we may be “exercised” by it and thus reap in due time, “the peaceable fruit of righteousness.”

    Now if Job had only seized the great fact that God was dealing with him; that He was trying him for his ultimate good; that He was using circumstances, people, the Sabeans, Satan himself, as His instruments; that all his trials, his losses, his bereavements, his sufferings, were but God’s marvelous agency in bringing about His wise and gracious end; that He would assuredly perfect that which concerned His dear and much-loved servant, because His mercy endureth forever; in a word, had Job only lost sight of all second causes, and fixed his thoughts upon the living God alone, and accepted all from His loving hand, he would have more speedily reached the divine solution of all his difficulties.

    But it is precisely here that we are all apt to break down. We get occupied with men and things; we view them in reference to ourselves. We do not walk with our Father through, or rather above, the circumstances; but on the contrary, we allow the circumstances to get power over us. In place of keeping our Father between us and our (His) circumstances, we permit these latter to get between us and the Father. Thus we lose the realization of His presence, and the light of His countenance; the holy calmness of being in His loving hand, and under His fatherly eye.

    Hence we become fretful, impatient, irritable and fault-finding. We get out of fellowship (but never out of union—NC) with our Father, thoroughly astray, judging everyone except ourselves, until at length He takes us in hand and by His own direct and powerful ministry, brings us back to Himself in true brokenness of heart and humbleness of mind. This is “the end of the Lord.” “Behold, we cunt them happy who endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord, that the Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy” (James 5:11).

    --C H Mackintosh
     
  2. BobRyan

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    I agree with some points in your pots - however I strongly suggest that you spell check (with at semantic checker) that post and ask a moderator to assist with the edit since it is past the time for the edit to be allowed under normal rules.
     
  3. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    Hi BR - I'm not sure what you mean but appreciate you concern for literacy. I have occasionally encountered some who may not understand the way the material is presented, but this may be due to the fact that the materials I share are circa 1700-late 1800's authors.
     
  4. BobRyan

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    Ok - well I am taking your word for it and looking up the word to see if there were some alternate spellings. I found "counten" but not your spelling.

    ===============

    Etymology 1

    From Middle English counten, from Anglo-Norman conter, from Old French conter (“add up; tell a story”), from Latin computare, present active infinitive of computō (“I compute”). Displaced native Middle English tellen (“to count”) (from Old English tellan) and Middle English rimen (“to count, enumerate”) (from Old English rīman).
    Noun

    count (plural counts)

    1. The act of counting or tallying a quantity. Give the chairs a quick count to check if we have enough.
    2. The result of a tally that reveals the number of items in a set; a quantity counted.
    3. A countdown.
    4. (law) A charge of misconduct brought in a legal proceeding.
    5. (baseball) The number of balls and strikes, respectively, on a batter's in-progress plate appearance. He has a 3-2 count with the bases loaded.
     
  5. BobRyan

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    You seem to be using the phrase "End of the Lord" to mean "the goal or purpose" of the Lord.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    Hi Bob - Yes, same as in James 5:11: "And have seen the end of the Lord; that is, the happy end, or exodus, out of all his (Job) troubles; which the Lord gave "to him"; for he gave him twice as much as he had before, and blessed his latter end more than his beginning, Job 42:10." John Gill
     
  7. BobRyan

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    Indeed we have the saying "to what ends? To what purpose?".

    Rom 10:4 uses the same sense of if "Christ is the end of the Law".

    John Wesley - the Law leads to Christ - and Christ leads to His Law "If you Love ME KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15 for those who "Love Me and Keep My Commandments" Ex 20:6.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    You will do almost anything to pervert a very good thread and try to hijack it to another subject.
     
  9. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    Just wanted to add this Bob: "keep my commandments: Christ is Lord over his people, as he is the Creator and Redeemer of them, and as he is an head and husband to them, and as such he has a right to issue out his commands, and enjoin a regard unto them; and these are peculiarly "his," as distinct from, though not in opposition to, or to the exclusion of, his Father's commands; such as the new commandment of loving one another, and the ordinances of baptism, and the Lord's supper, which are to be observed and kept as Christ has ordered them, constantly, in faith, and with a view to his glory." J Gill

    The command to "love one another as I have loved you" is different than the command to "love your neighbor as yourself." Just as the latter sums up the Law of Moses (Matt 22:40), the former sums up Christ's commands (John 15:12).

    I would also like to share this about Romans 10:4:

    "For Christ is the end of the law,.... The apostle here observes that to them which had they known, would have regulated their zeal, removed their ignorance and set them right, in that which they stumbled at, and fell.

    "By the "law" here, is not meant the ceremonial law, of which, indeed, they were all very zealous, and of which Christ also was the end in many respects; he was the final cause of it, or that for the sake of which it was; it had not been given had it not been for him.

    "All its institutions, ordinances, and sacrifices, were on his account: they were all shadows of him, and he the body and substance of them; he was the end or mark and scope at which they all aimed; every type looked to him, and every offering directed the worshipper to him; he was the terminus of it, to whom it was to reach, and beyond whom it was not to go; it was a schoolmaster for instruction and direction until Christ came, and no longer." J Gill
     
  10. BobRyan

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    In Hebrews 10 we are told that by the sacrifice of Christ made "once for all" he "took away the first to establish the second" - speaking of the ceremonial laws of sacrifice.
     
  11. BobRyan

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    Gal 3 does not say that "the law was our schoolmaster until Christ came".

    It says that the law is our school master until we are born again - saved "until FAITH came". For as Paul points out in Romans 10 "Faith COMES from hearing and hearing from the Word of God".

    Gal 3 and Romans 3 insist that the Law of God still remains and condemns all mankind - still to this very day - as under the penalty of sin. The only way out is that we as individuals accept Christ - and so then His substitutionary atoning sacrifice as the debt payed. "The certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us " nailed to the cross as the NASB puts it.

    As a result the NEW Covenant of Heb 8 points to the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-33 where the Law of God is written on the mind and the heart.

    As Paul points out in Gal 1:6-11 it is "One Gospel" in all ages.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    What is written in our hearts is the Law in its PRINCIPLE FORM which Christ and all the apostles reduced to one word "Love." Thus the "heart" is snynomous with "love" as in to "love the Lord thy God WITH ALL THINE HEART" and "love" thy neighbor as thyself.

    Christ is the "end of the Law for righteousness" as the Law cannot go any further, nor be any more satisfied than the righteousness provided and found in the Person of Christ in his life and death FOR US. Hence, the law has no CONDEMNING JURISDICTION over us and we will not stand personally before God and be judged by the Law for entrance into heaven as that has already been judged in the Person of Christ (Jn. 5:24).

    Love is the motivation for keeping Christ's commandments not justification for entrance into heaven. Christians REST in Christ's satisfaction of the Law's demands and thus are FREE from its condemnation, its jurisdiction as we are "dead" by the body of Christ to all the legal demands of the law.
     
  13. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    The Ten Commandments was the moral ordinances and the rest was the sacrificial ordinances, both of which comprised the Law of Moses, which Law "was added because of transgressions," by which neither righteousness nor eternal inheritance is obtained (Gal 3:18, 19).

    The New Covenant or "second covenant" is not between man and God but between the Son and the Father--made from eternity past--and is known as "the Everlasting Covenant (Heb 13:20).

    This covenant contains the Father's predetermination to raise His Son from the dead after dying for mankind, which makes the believer only a recipient of this Covenant and not a participant in the Covenant itself.

    Most are not yet familiar with this concept!
     
  14. The Biblicist

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    Well said, and you are right most are not familiar with this wonderful fact!
     
  15. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain
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    Not that there's significance to this part in my opinion, but is translates "was," in most of the Bibles.

    I won't be able to continue to address the concepts concerning the Law because there is too much time involved, but just to add, the Jeremiah 31 prophecy is to Israel during the Millennium, along with Ezekiel 36:27)
     
  16. NetChaplain

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    Hi TB- Thanks for your replies and I like your post # 12. If it's not offensive for me to suggest something when replying within my posts, I wanted to let you know that accusations (#8) are not necessary because they interfere with attempting to present brotherly love when corresponding with others.

    Thanks Brother!
     
  17. Gup20

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    Gal 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
    25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

    Those who are of faith are no longer under the tutor. You really, really need to get a hold of Romans 8:

    Rom 8:10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.​

    In the believer, the flesh and the spirit are split. The flesh is condemned, and in fact sin is banished from the spirit to the flesh:

    Rom 8:3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
    4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.​

    Do you see? The Law will be fulfilled in us, not by keeping the law, but by the death of our flesh. There are 2 ways to fulfill the law - keep it and live, or break it and die. Christ did the keeping it for us... we don't have to keep it. We have already broken it. Through the death of our flesh (while our spirit survives because of Christ's righteousness) we become impervious to sin and death for all eternity. Why? Because of Christ's righteousness in our spirit, our spirit is alive. Because of our own flesh being destroyed, we have fulfilled the law in our flesh.

    Rom 6:7 for he who has died is freed from sin.​

    Indeed. And we don't have to "keep" the law in our flesh to "fulfill" the law. The death of our bodies is a fulfillment of the law. This is why Romans 7-8 admonish us to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh... the fate of our flesh and the fate of our spirit are no longer tethered together (for the believer).

    Cr 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
    45 So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
    1Cr 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
    51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
    1Cr 15:54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
    55 “O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?”
    56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
     
  18. BobRyan

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    Jer 31:31-33 is quoted in Hebrews 8 as the present reality for the saints under the New Covenant.

    No doubt blessings and promises under the NC extend into the future as well.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. BobRyan

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    As your own "Baptist Confession of Faith" points out (with emphasis in C.H. Spurgeon's rendering of it) - the Ten Commandments are included in that moral law of God - given to all mankind - starting in Eden and applicable even to the saints today.

    See section 19 of that document.

    For those who are not Baptists - see section 19 of the Westminster Confession of Faith, as it makes the same point.


    And that is "end" as in "end of the Lord" James 5:11 - KJV.

    It means "Goal or purpose".

    The Law leads to Christ and as we see in John 14:15 - Christ leads to the Law "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" in the same words as HE stated them in Ex 20:6 - right IN the TEN Commandments "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments".

    Just as we find again in 1John 5:2-3



    Yes and no.

    In 2Cor 5 "We must ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ" and this has to do with evil deeds done in the body as well as good.

    Romans 6:23 - the "reward" for evil deeds is the lake of fire.

    If we are covered by the righteousness of Christ in that future day then all is well.

    But everyone does not go to heaven - nor even do all who have said "Lord Lord" Matt 7. "But he who DOES the will of the father".

    And that leads us to places like Matt 18 "forgiveness revoked".

    To places like Gal 5:4 "Severed from Christ - fallen from Grace"

    To places like Romans 11 "you should fear - for you stand only by your faith - if He did not spare them - neither will he spare you".

    To places like 1Cor 9 "I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified".

    All the texts that some groups avoid at all costs as if - not reading them - solves the problem.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. The Biblicist

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    What is written in the heart is not Saturday or Sunday. No heathen culture now or ever can be found where a heathen unfamiliar with the law of Moses or New Testament where they naturally observe either Saturday or Sunday as a Sabbath! Can't be found because the fourth commandment nor any EXTERNAL FORM of any other commandment is written on the heart. What is written on the heart is the Law in its PRINCIPLE substance = Love. You can find this principle in all heathen cultures.



    Yes, the Law does lead to Christ as its goal in the sense the context is demanding. Romans 10:4 is set in contrast to Romans 10:1-3 and the Jewish goal of obtaining righteousness the righteousness of the Law by PERSONAL OBEDIENCE. Instead of "going about trying to establish" the righteousness demanded by the law by personal obedience, the law condemns all who attempt that way and thus leads a person to Christ, who did satisfy it by his own PERSONAL OBEDIENCE and that PERSONAL OBEDIENCE and full satisfaction of the Law by Christ can only be obtained by us through faith in His finished work WITHOUT OUR WORKS!

    21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
    22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ


    It cannot be obtained by PERSONAL OBEDIENCE by us but by faith. Unlike the SDA concept, Faith does not demand of us personal obedience to the Law like Moses demanded of us in order to be justified by God - "do this and live" which is to demand we reproduce the life of Christ by our own efforts, that is to bring Christ down from heaven (incarnation) and raise him up from the deep (resurrection) but faith merely says believe in the good news that Christ has already come down from heaven and satisfied the full demands FOR US, so that we do not have to REPEAT the life of Christ by our own life in order to be justified before God:

    5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
    6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
    7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
    8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;


    However, that is precisely what SDA demands! They demand that justification by faith in the complete satisfaction of the Law's demands by Christ without works is not sufficent for utlimate justification but that the believer must duplicate the life of Christ in their own life by their own presonal obedience to the Law. thus invalidating, repudiating that Incarnate life of Christ and his death and resurrection was sufficient FOR OUR ultimate justification and entrance into heaven.

    SDA like Roman Catholicism demands the replication of Christ's incarnate life and death BY OUR OWN PERSONAL LIFE OBEDIENCE to the law. However, the Biblical faith does not demand REPLICATION of Christ's life by our personal obedience to the Law for utliamte justification.

    Your soteriology repudiates Christ's incarnate life and death as totally insufficient FOR US but rather demands it is merely the beginning basis to enable us TO REDUPLICATE Christ's life and death by our OWN OBEDIENCE for salvation.

    In other words you reject Jesus Christ, His incarnate life and death as finished or sufficient FOR US to be justified but only see it as USEFUL to reduplicate it to OBTAIN YOUR OWN PERSONAL OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW in order to be ultimately saved.
    ,
     
    #20 The Biblicist, Aug 10, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2013

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