1,225 Ordained Southern Baptist Women?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by J.R. Graves, Dec 12, 2003.

  1. J.R. Graves

    J.R. Graves
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2001
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    0
    "The Fall 1997 edition of Folio, the newsletter of Baptist Women in Ministry, reported that there are 1,225 ordained Southern Baptist women. Roughly 200 of the ordained women serve as pastors and associate pastors. Sociologist Sarah Frances Anders wrote in an article that 35 percent of the women served in church staff positions. Less than 2 percent of ordained women are academics. The other top 10 states for employing Baptist women are, in order, Texas, Virginia, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina. Florida, Missouri, Alabama, and Maryland. In 1979 there were only 58 ordained Southern Baptist women, but the number has increased rapidly in the 1980s and 1990s, during the same period in which the "conservatives" have dominated the national convention."

    Here are some questions about the above article:

    1) Is this accurate?

    2) How many of these 1,225 ordained Southern Baptist women are now in the CBF?

    3) Does this number include ordained chaplains? Ordained children's and youth ministers?

    4) How this number increased or decreased since 1997.

    PLEASE lets us this post to discuss these questions and these statistics and not use this post to debate whether women should be ordained. Thanks,
     
  2. Daniel David

    Daniel David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    J.R., several churches have been denied as to receiving their funds because they ordained women deacons. Do you really think the SBC has that many ordained pastors? Frankly, I don't know of 1.
     
  3. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    3,816
    Likes Received:
    0
    The only SBC Churches that receive money from the denomination are mission churches mostly in areas where SBC work is sparce.

    Rightly so, they should be asked to affirm the BF&M which is clearly against Women as Pastors.

    There is an SBC Church less than 15 miles from me who recently ordained a woman to a ministry position. She's not the senior pastor.
     
  4. Major B

    Major B
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    JR, don't you recall the incident in your home county? A new pastor of D....boro First came in from NC, and his wife's name came up on a list of ordained ministers in your county. As I recall, that led to quite a donnybrook in the association.
     
  5. USN2Pulpit

    USN2Pulpit
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,641
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't forget that it is also becoming "the thing to do" to ordain those who feel called aside for the music ministry in the church. I know of several music leaders who are ordained - especially those who lead music as their sole vocation.
     
  6. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    Perhaps we will realize one day that Spurgeon was correct in his assessment of ordination: "Why lay empty hands on empty heads?"

    I think that we are too quick to ordain, and we are, indeed, ordaining the wrong people. I admit that I was too young to be ordained to ministry, and it is the grace of God that kept me all these years. Far too often, it has become a fleeting fancy, and we ought to take more time. We should let young men prove themselves in the field of service, and not just academically equipped. We are putting far too much emphasis on degrees and particular schools, and far too little on spiritual values.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  7. Thankful

    Thankful
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/BettyE.gif>

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2002
    Messages:
    8,430
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jim, did you have to quote that? ;)

    Perhaps they are counting all the women who are ministers or in charge of a ministry, but many of these are not ordained.

    Some women are in charge of children's ministry, but will not call themselves ministers.

    I do not believe in women pastors or women deacons, but I do believe that women can serve in many ministries of the church to the glory of our Lord and Savior.

    The FBC in our city has women deacons and women ministers, but not a woman pastor.

    As a church musician, I have served with women music ministers and in my present church, women lead the music when needed.
     
  8. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Amen, Jim! [​IMG]
     
  9. blackbird

    blackbird
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    11,898
    Likes Received:
    2
    I'm with ya, Jim! The word teaches us not to lay hands on a novice!

    There is one ordained woman who is pastoring a church here in Mississippi---a member of the MBC and the CBF---I honestly do not know how her church, aligned with both the CBF and the MBC, feels about the SBC who the MBC is in friendly coorporation with---but the SBC and the CBF are not "Jee-Hawin'!"
     
  10. Bethelassoc

    Bethelassoc
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jim:

    I agree wholeheartedly. Our association "sets aside" new ministers to prove themselves. Some wait one year, others wait two years, then the church examines and agrees/disagrees with the ordination. In some cases, churches get hasty and ordain an unqualified individual.

    As a whole, churches have gotten away from the biblical principles of who the elders are in the church and what guidelines they are to follow. To see a decline in "empty heads" we should get back to the basics of biblical guidelines.

    Just like everything else, the answer is so clear, but what's gonna be done about it?
     
  11. j_barner2000

    j_barner2000
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2003
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    0
    man I have been serving at my church for 18 months and my pastor has just recently decided to reccomend that the church license me. He said ordination would come another 2 or 3 years after that. Guess it depends where you are and how careful your church is. I am glad they are going slow and being sure that they can affirm God's call on my life, rather than just excitedly jumping into ordination.
     
  12. atestring

    atestring
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    Messages:
    1,675
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey everone ,
    I am back.
    I have a question that I have been asking for the last few years and nobody seems to want to answer.
    If women are to be silent in the church and stay in their place then why do Southern Baptist take offerings to honor, Annie Armstrong and Lottie Moon.
    These were women preachers. If The SBC has such a stand against women preachers shouldn't they change the name of these offerings . Maybe they could honor "Pope Paige" or "Cardinal Pressler"???
     
  13. atestring

    atestring
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    Messages:
    1,675
    Likes Received:
    0
    I give up!
    After years of asking the question about Lottie Moon and Annie Armstrong being women preachers,
    I don't think anyone will even attempt to give an answer, as to why The SBC doesn't want women preachers but honors these two women preacher with offerings named after them.
     
  14. Major B

    Major B
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    The SBC has had female mission workers since the beginning, and we have them now. What these women were not, and what they would not have been, is pastors(or elders, if you use that terminology). The qualifications given in 1 Tim 3 and Titus 1 for pastors are plain and unequivocal. Women may exhort and testify as God has gifted them, but they are not to be pastors, and they should not teach adult believing men.
     
  15. atestring

    atestring
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    Messages:
    1,675
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why or why not are women allowed to exhort and testify as God Has gifted them?


    do you believe that they should b silent in the church?
    If so how can they exhort?
     
  16. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    I understand "the times they are a'changing", but please give me one NT scripture verse that shows an ordained woman.

    If (third class conditional) there are none, then it is all opinion and tradition.
     
  17. Major B

    Major B
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    The verses below line it out pretty well. Study them out and you tell me what they mean.

    Acts 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.
    Acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples (altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said,... 2:1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
    Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
    Acts 2:3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


    Acts 2:16 "But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
    Acts 2:17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.
    Acts 2:18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy.

    Acts 21:8 On the next day we who were Paul's companions departed and came to Caesarea, and entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him.
    Acts 21:9 Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied.

    1 Cor 11:5 "But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved."

    1 Cor 12:4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
    1 Cor 12:5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
    1 Cor 12:6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
    1 Cor 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
    1 Cor 12:8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
    1 Cor 12:9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
    1 Cor 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
    1 Cor 12:11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
    1 Cor 12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
    1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body; whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free; and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.


    1 Cor 14:1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
    1 Cor 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
    1 Cor 14:3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.
    1 Cor 14:4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
    1 Cor 14:5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.
    1 Cor 14:6 But now, brethren, if I come


    1 Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.
    1 Cor 14:35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.
    1 Cor 14:36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached?
    1 Cor 14:37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.
    1 Cor 14:38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.
    1 Cor 14:39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.
    1 Cor 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.


    1 Tim 2:11 "Let a woman learn in silence with all submission."
     
  18. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,933
    Likes Received:
    8
    AARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH.

    In the spirit of all humility, I hate threads like this because they frustrate me, knowing where my heart is.

    JR&lt; I doubt very few ordained pastoral women are in the SBC. Many of these women are in CBF or other denominations, but still retain a base as a "Baptist".

    I am a minister to children. I as well as my pastor as well as my church calls me a minister to children, because that is what I, and others in this ministry, do.

    I am not "ordained" by "man", but I am ordained by God, and was ordained as a 14 year old--set aside to do God's work.
     
  19. atestring

    atestring
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    Messages:
    1,675
    Likes Received:
    0
    Major B
    are you saying the scripture is saying for women to be silent. Then Let them be 100% silent.
    Do not let them sing. Do not let them teach Sunday School, give announcements about women meetings ....There should be repentance in sackloth and ashes over Annie armstrong and Lottie Moon speaking.
    Should women be gagged as they file into church buildings?
     
  20. Major B

    Major B
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is obvious you missed the whole thing. Read the verses. Read ALL the verses. Ask questions about them. Study them.
     

Share This Page

Loading...