1 Cor 11:4-10. Headcovering for women!

Go through this Scripture and take note of the attributes of the woman in subjection to her husband.
These are the attributes of which in the sight of God is of great price.
What does the wearing of a veil prove if these attributes are not manifest?

3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

HankD </font>[/QUOTE]I think that 1 Peter 3 goes beautifully with 1 Corinthians 11.

I agree that the attributes mentioned in 1 Peter are of utmost importance in the life a submitted Christian woman. The Christian woman should worship in Spirit and in Truth, not just one, but both.

When I adorned with apparel, it was not for the glory of God.

Veiling covers up my glory, my hair.

When I was uncovered my glory was out for all to look upon.

I do not adorn with a veil, I cover with it.

 

anything you put on your body, including a veil is an adornment.

 

1Cor 11:10 KJV
10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels
The word symbol is not there,it is an added word.
the greek word for power=

strong's G1846
From G1832 (in the sense of ability); privilege, that is, (subjectively) force, capacity, competency, freedom, or (objectively) mastery (concretely magistrate, superhuman, potentate, token of control), delegated influence:—authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength.
Since the word symbol isn't there I guess that means the angels don't requires a sign to know I am a christian.


13Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?

16But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.

Likewise I ahev met many women unveiled who were submissive. Veiling does not make one submissive.

Thats where further, good bible study comes in handy. Not only studying opinions like you keep quoting, but studying how people lived in bible times, in order to understand what is being said even better. There are many verses in the bible that would be very hard to if not impossible to understand without knowing what their lives were like then.
When it comes to the book of Corinthians it is very difficult to take doctrine from it as nearly everything in it was Paul addressng problems in the Corinthian church. Unless you have those specific problems they do not apply. No need in telling a person how to handle divorce in a biblical way if they aren't getting divorced. When you read Corinthians you must ask what problem Paul is addressing. In this instance it is wives not wanting to submit to their husbands. They were Greeks, they had never submitted to husbands before, now as christians they either didn't know they were supose to or they didn't want to( the old man still having influence in their lives), Paul is teaching them they are to be submissive, and the importance of submission.
Taken in context to the rest of the book that is.
Proper study of 1 Corinthinas will tell anyone this. I mean it's all throught the book, you can't miss it.
Looking into what their Corinthian culture was like you will learn just what Dina said, short cut hair meant prostution, Paul wanted them to avoid the semblence of prostution by having long hair. And as Dina said short hair today, in our country does not represent prostution. I'm sure if it did most all christian women would be glad to grow it long.

 

&gt;&gt;Also, there is nothing in the text about prostitution.The text is about creation order and headship, which are eternal principles.&lt;&lt;

There is nothing in the text, but knowing from other parts of the text, and historical accounts that have been found, we do know what was going on in Corinth.

Creation Order and Headship??? I thought it was a letter to the Corinthian Church from Paul. The subject matters as I understand them are: 1:1-6:20 Paul is addressing Church problems. Division1:10-4:21. Disorder: chapters 5 and 6.
7:1-16:24 Paul is answering questions from the church on Christian Marriage Chapter 7
Christian Freedom Chapters 8-10
Instructions on pulic worship Chapters 11-14
and the resurrection Chapters 15-16

Now, a question why did Paul say in verse
4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.
and also in verse
14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him,

 

Creation order:

Verse 9, "Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man"

Headship:

Verse 3, "But, I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is man; and the head of Christ is God."

Verse 4: "Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dshonoureth his head."

When a man prays or prophesies with a headcovering on dishonors his head, Christ.

In addition a man is not to have long hair as shown in verse 4, because nature teaches us that it is a shame for men to have long hair.

 

I've asked you this before and never get an answer. But what do you think it means by nature. What in nature shows us how long or short a mans hair should be?

 

From: http://heart4god.8k.com/id252.htm

"In scripture we are given an account of a man who gloried in his long hair, and this glorying led to a shameful death. This young man was Absalom, the son of King David.


II Samuel 14:25-26
25 Now in all Israel was no one as handsome as Absalom, so highly praised; from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head there was no defect in him.
26 When he cut the hair of his head (and it was at the end of every year that he cut it, for it was heavy on him so he cut it), he weighed the hair of his head at 200 shekels by the king's weight.


Absalom was so proud of his hair that he only cut it once a year, and he made a spectacle of this event. He would gather people together for his annual shearing and he would weigh the amount of hair that he cut off. Absalom had a glorious head of hair, but he foolishly flaunted his glory. It was this hair that he so gloried in that was the instrument of his death.


II Samuel 18:9, 14-15
9 Now Absalom happened to meet the servants of David. For Absalom was riding on his mule, and the mule went under the thick branches of a great oak. And his head caught fast in the oak, so he was left hanging between heaven and earth, while the mule that was under him kept going...
14 So [Joab] took three spears in his hand and thrust them through the heart of Absalom while he was yet alive in the midst of the oak.
15 And ten young men who carried Joab's armor gathered around and struck Absalom and killed him.


This story gives stark testimony to the evil of men seeking to expose their own glory while covering the glory of God. Perhaps Paul was thinking of Absalom when he said, “Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him.” A man should not have long hair, and he should not place a covering over his head when he prays or prophesies.


Similarly, since woman is the glory of man, it is shameful for a woman to be uncovered while praying or prophesying. As she stands before God she represents the glory of man, and the glory of man should not be flaunted, but covered. If a woman stands in the congregation with her head uncovered she is exposing the glory of her husband and her husband is brought to shame for failing to cover his glory in the presence of God. What a shame it is for a man to stand in God’s presence with his glory exposed. This is the meaning of these verses:


4 Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying, dishonors his head.
5 But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying, dishonors her head...
7 For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.


Just as Paul gave more than one scriptural reason supporting the ministers right to make a living from the gospel, we can now see that he has given more than one scriptural reason for women to have their heads covered. The godly woman should cover her head because of the angels, to demonstrate humble acceptance of her role in creation. She should also do so because of glory: God’s glory should be exposed, but man’s glory covered. This is the purpose and understanding of headcovering."

 

&gt;&gt;In addition a man is not to have long hair as shown in verse 4, because nature teaches us that it is a shame for men to have long hair.&lt;&lt;

Why would a man, known to have taken the Nazarite vow-not to cut his hair-call himself a shame?

 

please see post above yours.

 

Would you please show scripture where it sasy all this. These verses do not say he was proud, nor that he gathered people to see it, nor that he flaunted his hair. And I'd like to see scripture say his death was becasue of his pride in his hair. Got those?
From what I see you are once again adding to scripture.

If a woman stands in the congregation prophesing,covered or uncovered, she is violating scripture.

More then one reason? I only see yu siting the saem scripture, not more thn one, but the same one repested.

Can you explain this?
1. 'Godly woman should cover her head' so your saying women who do not veil are not godly? It sure looks like it.
2. explain becasue of the angels, and it isn't a sign to angels either.

Has nothing to do with actually living it. Yet you would call women who are living it ungodly if they are not veiled.

Samson had long hair, I guess it was a shame.

I have asked you more then once, actually many many time here to explain this

Since you continuelly ignore it I must assume you can not. How can you keep using it when you can not explain it in context of these verses.

I'm getting a little tired when you can not win this debate you always end up calling us ungodly.

 

Dr. Bob Griffin,
Can you please show me where I called someone who doesn't put a hat on ungodly? I cannot find that anywhere in my post.

 

Okay, we have a bit of misunderstanding here.

When Paul says that they have no such custom and that it is not done throughout the churches, he is saying that if the Corinthian church does not do what he says, they are all by themselves. There is no custom to not have a covering, and all the churches practice that. He is saying the Corinthians would be in rebellion.

A covering is mandatory. The kind of covering might change throughout various cultures. So it is a cultural-mandate.

It is rebellion before God to ignore this text and write it off as merely cultural.

Just for the record since we are using 1 Cor. 11, God (the Father) displayed his glory in the person of Christ. He did not "hide" his glory.

I am NOT shamed by my wife. She is godly and beautiful. It would be shameful to hide her. She has submitted willingly to the covering that I have chosen for her.

 

I think there are several people confused about what GRACE means.

 

After writting about hair and veils Paul plainly says

16But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.
Say what you want to about it, it's plainly there.

 

Dr Bob Briffin,

Actually, the above is what I posted, not, "Godly women should cover her head".

And no where in this gentleman's sermon was anyone called ungodly. He is simply making a plea to godly Christian women to cover their heads.

It was written by a Pastor and is in quotations. His link is at the top.

[ November 15, 2003, 01:19 AM: Message edited by: Headcoveredlady ]

 

After writting about hair and veils Paul plainly says

16But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.
Say what you want to about it, it's plainly there. </font>[/QUOTE]The custom Paul refers to is being contentious, i.e. being fond of strife, philoneikos.

[ November 15, 2003, 04:31 AM: Message edited by: timothy 1769 ]

 

And thus one who does NOT cover her head is ungodly.
</font>[/QUOTE]Huh? If I say all Texans should buckle up because it can save their lives, does one stop being a Texan if one doesn't?

 

I think there are several people confused about what GRACE means. </font>[/QUOTE]Ro 6:1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?