1 Cor. 12:13 and water baptism and local church body

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Dec 4, 2012.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    1 Cor. 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


    1. "by" on Spirit means "by his leadership" or "under his direction"

    2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
    3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.


    This section introduces the Greek preposition "en" in connection with the Spirit in verses 2-3 in contrast to the phrase "as ye were led." When they were lost they were UNDER THE LEADERSHIP of demons but when God saved them they came under NEW LEADERSHIP and this contrast of leadership is expressed by introducing "en" in contrast to that phrase. Under the leadership of the Holy Spirit no man can call Jesus accursed and no man can call Him Lord in its Biblical sense except UNDER THE LEADERSHIP "by" the Spirit.

    The same meaning is restrained throughout this passage right to its use in verse 13. So verse 13 refers to the LEADERSHIP of the Spirit. By or under the Leadership of the Spirit the members had been baptized into one body.

    This idea of "under leadership" by the Spirit was first introduced in 1 Cor. 3:5-16 where the building of the congregation at Corinth is explained to have taken place under certain conditions. The human instruments that brought the gospel and water baptized them into this congregation were working in unity under the leadership of the Spirit of God in building a temple at Corinth:

    1 Cor. 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
    9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.


    That is the human instruments that administered water baptism to these members were working together as "one" under the leadership of the Spirit so that it was the Holy Spirit who actually saved them and water baptized them into that "building" at Corinth. He did not say "we" are God's husbandry and building but "ye" are. He is talking about how the church at Corinth was built under the leadership of God the Holy Spirit as a "temple" (1 Cor. 3:16).

    His reason for informing them of this is because they were bragging and dividing themselves under these different human instruments (1 Cor. 1:11-13):

    1 Cor. 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
    12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
    13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?


    What they were doing about baptism they were doing about spiritual gifts. They were boasting in one gift over another. They all partook of that ONE TEMPLE/BODY at Corinth by being led by One Spirit to be water baptized into that congregation. Likewise, they partook of the gifts of the Holy Spirit who dwelt in that congregational body as His "building" and "temple" and "body" under the leadership of that same Spirit who equipped and set them in that body as it pleased him (vv. 14-26) so that "YE are the body of Christ and members in particular" at Corinth (v. 27) and this is precisely what he does in regard to the institutional body of Christ whenever and wherever He builds them.

    CONCLUSION: 1 Cor. 12:13 simply summarizes his exposition and response to their division over differences in baptismal administrators in 1 Cor. 3:5-16 and then applied to the same problem of differences over spiritual gifts in the church body at Corinth in 1 Cor. 12.
     
  2. The Biblicist

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    1 Cor. 12:12 ¶ For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

    He introduces verse 13 with verse 12 and the analogy of the HUMAN PHYSICAL BODY. Each and ever reader possessed such a body. They could look at their body and see it was "one" but yet diverse with many differed gifted and equipped members but all working together in harmony and that was his point:

    25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
    26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
    27 ¶ Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.


    The human body and the church body at Corinth were to have these commonalities with each other. They were PHYSICALLY united together with each other in one place. They were all gifted differently but brought together by the Holy Spirit into one church body so that they would be a complete body for serving God.

    It was actually possible for "all the members" to suffer or rejoice with "one member" in this kind of church body as it is with the physical body. This is impossible for the so-called universal non-assemblying so-called Catholic church body or the so-called universal invisible non-assemblying so-called Protestant church body.

    However, this is the practical and pragmatic solution and possibility for the problem presented in 1 Cor. 1:11 that existed in the body of Christ at Corinth. Just as the Holy Spirit had gifted each member and placed each member into the local church body in order to make it servicable and edifying to the whole membership so the Holy Spirit gifted the church as an institution (v. 28). The Holy Spirit had "set in" the institutional church everything necessary for its edification until Jesus returns.
     
  3. billwald

    billwald
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    1 Cor. 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Catholics or Democrats, Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    Interesting word, "made."
     
  4. The Biblicist

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    Yes, he has just explained in verses 7-11 that spiritual gifts are not chosen by believers but sovereignly distributed by the Spirit of God according to the roll they are to serve God in their own particular local builiding, temple, body (1 Cor. 3:6,16; 1 Cor. 12:27).
     
  5. Tom Butler

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    The body in I Cor 12:13 is the congregation at Corinth. The baptism is water baptism.

    We know this because Paul, in 12:27, identifies the congregation at Corinth this way: "YE are the body of Christ...." He also calls them members of that body.
     
  6. The Biblicist

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    Tom, I think that many Christians lose the value of 1 Cor. 12:12-27 when they apply it to a universal church. This passage provides a very essential message for understanding and maintaining the unity of a congregation.

    What they also miss is that this passage does not describe a headless body but a complete body with head distinct and separate from the metaphorical head of the body which is Christ.

    21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

    16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
    17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?



    Notice, the eye, ear and nose are all located in "the head" and these speak to the leadership gifts that Christ has provided in the congregation. This is not a headless body and the head described is not Christ.

    Likewise, in Ephesians 5:22-25 the husband is not "the head" over a headless wife but her literal head is attached to that body. The metahor "head" simply refers to the position of authority without any idea of union physical or spiritual implied any more than between the Father and Son (1 Cor. 11:3).

    Every single solitary text where such metaphors of "head" and "body" are used it NEVER once refers to salvation or spiritual union but rather to sanctification and service.
     
  7. DHK

    DHK
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    Many do, but like you say they "value it." Their value is borne out of tradition and sentiment, not out of the authoritative word. An unassembled assembly doesn't make sense and has no function. It contradicts the very meaning of the word, ekklesia.

    The context of the chapter indicates that it is impossible to render it "universal church."
    "Where one member suffers, all the members suffers..."
    If a believer suffers somewhere in Africa, how can I suffer with him, or vice versa. The body is the local church. The members are the local church. These verses make that clear. There is no way that all the members of the so-called local church suffer together for each others difficulties and pains, but we do in the local church. When one has terminal cancer all the members know about it and are praying for that person and their family. We have prayer meetings for good reason. But they don't include all "members" of so-called "universal church" which doesn't exist, and can't.
     
  8. The Biblicist

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    Couldn't agree more! Verse 27 Paul makes a direct application to the congregation at Corinth and in verse 28 speaks of "the church" in an institutional character although everything stated did literally occur in the actual first congregation in Jerusalem.The setting in of apostles was first and is recorded in Matthew, Luke and Mark in the early chapters. The first prophets mentioned in the book of Acts are coming out of the first church in Jerusalem in Acts 11. The first spiritual gifts are recorded in Acts 2-6 in the church at Jerusalem. As an institution, the church has been gifted with all the ministries for its edification. I think this is what Paul is getting at especially in regard to the ministry of the Word in Epheisans 4:11 where he lists apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. The apostles and prophets provided all the revelation, oral and written which the evangelists used in constituting new churches and pastors and teachers used in edifying these churches so that they were not tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine. Paul actually was gifted as an apostle, prophet, evangelist and pastor teacher in establishing the church at Ephesus.

    New Testament churches today are founded upon and established in "the faith" through the abiding written revelation provided by the apostles and prophets (New Testament) which was used in the constitution of their churches by evangelists (missionaries) and in maturing them "in the faith" by teachers and pastors so they are not tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine but are doctrinally united and mature in Christ.
     
  9. DHK

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    I thought we more or less agreed on this doctrine. :thumbsup:
     
  10. awaken

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    Just curious what you do with the books in the Bible that were not written by apostles?

    I believe in the local NT churches! But I also believe that all born again believers are in the family of God and they are my brothers and sisters in Christ.
     
  11. The Biblicist

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    There are no books in the New Testament that were not written by either apostles or prophets. All the books of the New Testament were written either by Apostles or those directly associated with and/or under the supervision of apostles.
     
  12. awaken

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    My point was that others than the apostles can be inspired to write by the Holy Spirit.
    Could you back your last statement up with scriptues? I have never read that! Where does it say they had to be an associate or under the supervision of an apostles in order to write a book in the Bible?
     
  13. The Biblicist

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    The completion of the New Testament canon had to be fulfilled by the apostles or those directly under their supervision because of Isaiah 8:16-18 and the prediction of Christ in the upper room discourse that the Holy Spirit would remind them and lead them into "all truth."

    The facts are that all the New Testament was in fact written either directly by the apostles (the vast majority) and the few which were not were written by those who in fact were in direct connection with the apostles. Most Bible scholars admit that Mark's gospel is dictated by Peter. Luke wrote his gospel and the book of Acts as an associate of Paul. James and Jude were directly disciples of Christ and thus fit the "disicples" of Isaiah 8:16-18.
     
  14. Tom Butler

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    I draw a distinction between the use of the term church and the use of family or kingdom.

    Family is a descriptor which helps us understand our relationship to the Father as his children; and, of course, to each other.

    Kingdom is also used to describe believers as servants of the King.

    It's important not to confuse those entities with the church. They are not the same.
     
  15. awaken

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    So are you saying those that are born from above are not part of the Kingdom?
    Are you also saying those that are born from above are not in the church?
    Can you, with scrpture, explain the division you have posted.
     
  16. The Biblicist

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    You are born into a family - the family of God
    You are a professed citizen in a kingdom - the kingdom of God
    You may or may not be baptized into the membership of a church - the church of God


    The family of God includes all children of God in heaven and earth - Eph. 3:15

    The kingdom on earth includes all professed children presently living on earth - Mt. 13

    The church of God is the visible administrative expression of the kingdom of God on earth wherein the "keys of the kingdom" reside - the authority to administer the ordinances, ordain a ministry, perform the public worship of God within the professing kingdom of God on earth and is composed of baptized believers.

    So, not all the family of God is on earth within the professing kingdom of God and not all the professing kingdom of God on earth is in the church.

    Family = salvation - Eph. 3:15
    kingdom = professed salvation - Mt. 13
    church = professed baptized believers - Mt. 18:15-18
     
  17. Tom Butler

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    No. Those whom the Lord saves ARE part of the Kingdom.

    Yes. The doorway to entry into the local church (the only kind there is) is water baptism, administered by the proper person authorized by that church.

    When Paul wrote in I Cor 12:13 "...we are baptized into the body," the baptism is dunking and the body is the local church--in this instance, FBC Corinth.

    The kingdom and the church are not the same thing. What many people describe as the Universal Church is actually the Kingdom.
     
  18. Yeshua1

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    No, for the Kingdom is more than even that!
    It is the total sphere of the absolute rule of God established over ALL creation...

    ONE Universal church, entryinto that by faith in christ, while local churches have water baptism as that entry point!
     
  19. The Biblicist

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    I cannot fathom making such assertions without contextual based properly exegeted scripture to back up what you are saying. But there you go again making unsupported assertions and just repeating them over and over again as though you think repetition makes something true.

    The term "kingdom" is used more than one sense in scripture. As you have stated in its absolute SPATIAL and MATERIAL sense it refers to God's rule over all creation. However, it is used in a limited SPIRITUAL sense as well as in a yet future unrealized sense.

    The point you are missing is that in Matthew 13 it is used in a SPIRITUAL sense that is LIMITED to this "world" or the "field" wherein PRESENT LIVING children of God are intermingled with "tares" and together they take on another APPARENT meaning which is the professing children/kingdom of God that is the cause of confusion in this present world.

    The seed are the true kingdom but the tares are mixed in together with the seed in the same field - this world. Hence, not to God but to man they provide the APPEARANCE of the professing kingdom of God. We cannot look into hearts and so we judge them by profession and fruits.

    The church is God's PUBLIC KINGDOM ADMINISTRATION or institutional expression of His kingdom and thus it is given the "keys of the kingdom" (Mt. 18:17-18). I suppose you have a car? I suppose you have the "keys" to that car? I suppose you have the legal authority to use those keys? Are you the car? no! Are you the keys? no! You are the administrator of the keys. The church has been given the keys of the kingdom thus the church is not the kingdom nor is it it the keys! Think about it!

    Please don't parrot back mere assertions without contextual based exegesis behind them.
     
  20. Tom Butler

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    Part of the difficulty in these discussions is the confusion between the church and the kingdom. They are not the same.

    In Matthew 16, Jesus told his disciples he would build his church. He was speaking to the church he would build. Notice he did not say he would establish His church. It already existed, with the Twelve as the first members.

    Jesus made his comment to an assembled group. That's the definition of a church. It assembles. It cannot be invisible. And a universal entity cannot assemble.

    Further, he told this assembly (church) he would give them the keys to the kingdom. That is, the church (assembly) has the keys to the kingdom. It is the authority to declare the terms of entry into the kingdom.

    The kingdom is the domain of the King; that makes it universal.

    In Matthew 18, Jesus said "tell it to the church." He never spoke this way of the kingdom.

    The church is spoken of as a body. The Kingdom is never described as such.

    Churches have officers. The Kingdom has a King.

    Admission to a church is by an action of the church and the administering of water baptism. God unilaterally, by the new birth, puts people into the Kingdom.

    The body is a functioning entity in which all the parts function together. The imaginary universal church doesn't function at all.

    Anybody drop in on a service lately at the nearby universal church? No? That's because it doesn't exist.
     

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