1 John 5:16 teaches confession by inference

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by billwald, Oct 20, 2011.

  1. billwald

    billwald
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    1 John 5:16
    King James Version (KJV)
    16If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

    The man who learns of his brother's sin prays for the brother and God saves the brother.
     
  2. matt wade

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    So it's your opinion that God saves people based upon another's prayers?
     
  3. billwald

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    I read the verse in several versions and they all read the same way.

    In the OT did God save some people on the basis of a Priest killing a cow or a sheep?
     
  4. matt wade

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    No, that did not happen in the OT.

    I ask you again, so it's your opinion that God saves people based upon another's prayers?
     
  5. plain_n_simple

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    Sure, why not? That word "saved" was chosen by early translators who had a choice of several words. "Save" or "Saved" was the simple choice from the original word "Sozo" : to heal, make safe, rescue from danger, make well from sickness, save.
     
  6. billwald

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    >I ask you again, so it's your opinion that God saves people based upon another's prayers?

    Yes, else you are are all wasting much of your time praying for unsaved friends and relatives.
     
  7. plain_n_simple

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    There might be a misunderstanding of "Saved and going to heaven" and "saved from everyday things"
     
  8. matt wade

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    You are a heretic.
     
  9. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    I thought it was against BB rules to question the salvation of a fellow member?
     
    #9 Matt Black, Oct 21, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2011
  10. Dr. Walter

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    Salvation is not in veiw here at all. The person that is to be prayed for is called a "brother" not a lost man. The entire book is to provide insights into knowing whether you are saved or lost. John explicitly says this person is a "brother" he does not say "IF one who says they are a brother."

    Secondly, the text says nothing of "eternal" life and so that is not only an assumption on your part, but an assumption which contradicts the rest of teaching that clearly says that believers already have "everlasting life" (I Jn. 5:13) at the point they trust in Christ (Jn. 5:24). John wrote both passages and many others declaring that point of present tense eternal life.

    Thirdly, can a saved person lose his physical "life" because of open and obvious willful sin? Isn't the purpose of chastening by God to turn a child of God from sin to repentance? Can God increase chastening? Can a child of God commit a sin which costs his physical life?

    Should you pray that God will forgive a person who is obviously not repentent in your eyes? Would not it be more proper to pray that God first convicts that person rather than forgive that person? Can physical death be a consequence of willful sin by a child of God?
     
  11. WestminsterMan

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    Yes.

    1 Corinthians 11:27-30

    27 So anyone who eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord unworthily is guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 That is why you should examine yourself before eating the bread and drinking the cup. 29 For if you eat the bread or drink the cup without honoring the body of Christ, you are eating and drinking God’s judgment upon yourself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and sick and some have even died.

    WM
     
  12. Matt Black

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    Um...well, suicide would seem to be an obvious example...
     
  13. Dr. Walter

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    Great example!
     
  14. David Lamb

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    But what has that got to do with confession, Bill (as per your thread title)?

    And what sort of confession did you have in mind? Did you mean "confession of sins", or confessing the Lord Jesus Christ?

    Incidentally, I agree with Dr Walter that the whole letter was addressed to saved people.
     
  15. plain_n_simple

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    That's what I wanted to say...lol
     
  16. billwald

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    >Thirdly, can a saved person lose his physical "life" because of open and obvious willful sin? Isn't the purpose of chastening by God to turn a child of God from sin to repentance? Can God increase chastening? Can a child of God commit a sin which costs his physical life?

    In the OT and in Acts God killed several people. There is no evidence they all ended up in Hell.



    >Should you pray that God will forgive a person who is obviously not repentent in your eyes?

    Yes.

    >Would not it be more proper to pray that God first convicts that person rather than forgive that person?

    I am interested in the results, not the process. The person will not be convicted unless the Holy Spirit first regenerates him. Conversion occurs when a person realizes that his sins are forgiven, that he is regenerate.

    >Can physical death be a consequence of willful sin by a child of God?

    Yes. God kills him to prevent future sins.
     
  17. billwald

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    1 Corinthians 11:27-30

    27 So anyone who eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord unworthily is guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 That is why you should examine yourself before eating the bread and drinking the cup. 29 For if you eat the bread or drink the cup without honoring the body of Christ, you are eating and drinking God’s judgment upon yourself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and sick and some have even died.

    Paul could have written ". . . died and gone to Hell," but he didn't.
     
  18. Dr. Walter

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    You may not be, but does not John explicity say we should not pray for such a one?



    This person is called a "brother"! Why would John call him a "brother" if he were really speaking about a lost person or a lost professor?
     
  19. billwald

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    >But what has that got to do with confession, Bill (as per your thread title)?

    I was referring to confessing one's sins to a brother in Christ for the purpose of getting advice or wanting to clear one's conscience and set things right with God. The text says we should pray for this person and God will forgive these sins.

    >You may not be, but does not John explicity say we should not pray for such a one?

    The text does not list the sins which are the felonies John refers to - unless all the sins listed in the book are felonies and then we should not pray for anyone?
     
  20. billwald

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    1 John 2:2

    2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    Who is "ours?" Who is "the whole world?"
     

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