1 Peter 2:13&14

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Walls, Nov 7, 2003.

  1. Walls

    Walls
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    1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
    14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

    Do these verses teach that if you do not follow every ordinance (such as; observing speed limits and wearing seat belts, not littering, reporting all cash given as income, submitting to all health requirements and public teaching and so on)that you are in rebellion to God and out of His will?
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Basically, yes. Unless those directions are in clear violation of God's Word.
     
  3. john6:63

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    Christ4kildare is right...
    Peter wrote this to a group of zealous Jews, in the days of the Roman Empire, who recognized no king but God, and paid taxes to no one but God. And don’t forget that the Roman government was no democracy and were not very friendly to the Christians. Yet Paul still recognized the authority of the Roman government. Since governments have a rightful authority from God, we are bound to obey them, unless as Christ4kildare has already pointed out, they try and force us to do something that contradicts Gods law. See Acts 4:19.
     
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    See Romans 13v1-7 for more.

    For an example of how to handle unbiblical laws see Hanania, Mishael, and Azaria. No pickets, no march on the capital, they just wouldn't bow and the state exercised their right to punish them. God honoured their obedience to Him.
     
  5. HankD

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    1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

    Every "ordinance-ktisis". The foundational elements of human governments.

    For us it is the Constitution, The Bill of Rights, the Declaration of independence, etc..,

    These give us our several freedoms, rights and privileges as American citizens: Life, Liberty, the Pursuit of happiness, Freedom of Speech, assembly, association, redress of grievances, etc, etc, etc...

    May God continue to bless America!

    HankD
     
  6. Pastor_Bob

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    The simple answer is that Christians are to abide by human law except where that human law goes against God's Law. Our ultimate duty is to obey God. Since God tells us to also obey human laws, we should. But, when they come in conflict, we are to "obey God rather than men." Acts 5:29
     
  7. Walls

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    Next question!

    If we are to obey every ordinance, then why did we have the Revolutionary war? Were these people Christian and if they were, were they in rebellion to God for standing against the king? And what about our country, if the above is true then our history is that of disobedience to God's word since that time.
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Easy one Walls (and even if it weren't it would not excuse the action)

    In December of 1775 George III had declared the colonies no longer under the protection of the crown. (I think it was called the "Proclamation of Rebellion"). In Philadelpia the next year the colonists simply agreed and acknowledged that fact.
     
  9. Walls

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    So they were already in rebellion before the tea party? Why?
     
  10. HankD

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    The Founding Fathers believed that the King of England had violated the rights of the colonists afforded to the common man by Almighty God.
    The "ordinance" or "ktsis" being the Magna Carta:

    http://www.cs.indiana.edu/statecraft/magna-carta.html

    Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

    this gave rise to one of our own "ordinances"

    The Declaration of Independence:

    read the entire document:

    http://memory.loc.gov/const/declar.html

    HankD
     
  11. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    IF there was sinful rebellion it was only before December of '75. NO one can seriously claim that the Founding Fathers were perfect. Jefferson's Deist theology runs rampant in the DOI. Governements DO NOT get their power from the consent of the governed, they get them from God (Romans 13).

    Most colonists were still in submission to the king and that was the desire or nearly all. When George III declared the colonies no longer under the protection of the crown they had no choice.
     
  12. Tim

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    Back to some earlier comments about the speed limit. Is it better to "sin" going 70 mph to keep from being rear-ended on the expressway, or to keep it at the speed limit regardless of the traffic flow?

    I guess you could say this is where our theological rubber meets the road.

    Tim
     
  13. Artimaeus

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    I will obey all of the laws of the land...just as soon as I learn them all. [​IMG]
     
  14. Walls

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    Don't these verses apply to the particular situation at Peter's time? After all, not everything in the Bible applies to us today, according to some people.

    Also, if this is the land of freedom and opportunity and the laws of this land provide us with certainly inalienable rights and we choose to exercise those rights then we are still in accordance to 1 Pet 2:13&14.
     
  15. HankD

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    Yes. And not just inalienable rights but in addition they are granted to us by Our Creator.

    HankD
     
  16. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    What rights would those be?

    With scipture.
     
  17. HankD

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    Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    Life :
    thou shalt not kill.

    Liberty
    Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

    Happiness
    Psalm 146:5 Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the LORD his God:

    HankD
     
  18. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Life - point taken

    Liberty - this is Christian liberty only found in Christ, not at general liberty at all

    Happiness - Happiness found in a proper realtionship with God

    These are not divinly given rights, but privilages bestowed on the people of God. A pagan nation has no inalienable rights.
     
  19. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Was just thinking over you rpost. How far do you take the right to liberty and happiness. If a 70mph speed limit deprrives you of the liberty to drive 140 do you have the right to ignore it.

    If turning over trash cans in the street makes me happy, can I ignore lawas against it?

    Romans 13v1-7 and 1 Peter 2v13-14 say exactly what they seem like. We are to obey EVERY law unless it directly violates God's law and even then the state has the right to punish us for choosing to break the law.
     
  20. HankD

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