1 Timothy 6:10: "all" or "all sorts of/all kinds of"?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by LarryN, Jun 3, 2005.

  1. LarryN

    LarryN
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    1 Timothy 6:10 (KJV)-
    For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

    -----------------------------------------------

    1 Timothy 6:10 (NASB)-
    For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

    1 Timothy 6:10 (NIV)-
    For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
     
  2. robycop3

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    There's no article in the Greek indicating "the" root, and we KNOW there are many sins which have nothing to do with the love of money, so "a" root is more correct. Also, the Greek word "pas", rendered "all" in some places in the KJV, and "all manner of" in other places, can mean either. Therefore,"all, all sorts of,& all kinds of" are equally correct.

    Checking into Strong's, we see his quote of Spurgeon concerning the renderings of "pas":

    C.H. Spurgeon, from a sermon on Particular Redemption

    I believe this could be applied to "all evil".
     
  3. icthus

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    C.H. Spurgeon, from a sermon on Particular Redemption

    I believe this could be applied to "all evil".
    </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for the misinformation on the meaning of the Greek words, "pas" and "kosmos". What you have quoted from Spurgeon, has more to do with his theology, than an honest representation of what the Greek words in question actually mean. To say, that the words, "very rarely the "all" means all persons", is a clear distortion of the facts, and meant to give the wrong impression that this is what the Greek says.

    If anyone knows Greek, they would consult a Greek Lexicon (not Strong's), and they will soon discover for themselves, that the primary meanings of both "pas" and "kosmos", are indeed for "all" and "the human race" This is the basic meaning from the earliest times of the words being used in Greek. It is also with these meanings, that the words are used in the Bible, in the greater majority of the times they are used. Not, "very rarely" as suggested by Spurgeon, so that he can promote his Calvinistic nonsense on Limited Atonement. When Paul writes, "all have sinned", does he mean "every single person", or "some", or "most"?. The context must determine the meaning in some cases, and not our theological bent.

    When Paul says in 1 Timothy 2:3,4, "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth"

    To the Calvinistic mind, which is governed by their theological bias, this will no doubt mean, "all kinds of men". However, the context in which Paul uses "pantas" here, without any doubt to the honest mind, means exactly the opposite, "every single person". He begings this chapter by exhorting us to pray for "all men", and "all that are in authority". Do we here understand that "all" in both these cases means, "all kinds of men", and "all kinds of authority"? This is absurd, and goes right against what Paul is here saying. No, "all" here clearly means just that, "without any limit". And, in verse six, Paul carries on this use of "all", when he says of Jesus, that He "gave Himself a ransom for all"

    If there are any limits to be placed on "all" here, it will be done from the point of ones theology, and NOT in accordance of what the context, and other Scriptures teach.
     
  4. Deacon

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    Eve's disobedience was motivated by money???

    Sometimes "all" doesn't mean ALL.

    Rob
     
  5. icthus

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    Eve's disobedience was motivated by money???

    Sometimes "all" doesn't mean ALL.

    Rob
    </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, if you were to read my post, you will see that I do not disagree with this. The meaning must be determind by the context in some cases, and not by what out "theology" says. This is my point. Why don't you deal with the passage I quote from 1 Timothy? Are you saying that Paul did not mean "all" in its literal sense here?
     
  6. Deacon

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    icthus, do I understand you as saying that ALL in 1 Timothy means "each and every".

    I'm no Greek scholar, so teach me if I'm wrong, but to refute this idea all you have to do is find an instance where it doesn't apply.

    You ask: Are you saying that Paul did not mean "all" in its literal sense here?

    I am saying that ALL here is best translated as "all sorts of" or "all kinds of" as it is translated well in a variety of translations.

    Robycop's analysis of the lack of an article for the Greek word, Rhiza (root) is quite correct.

    "For the love of money is a root (one of many) of all sorts of evil" ...It is NOT the root (singular) of all evil.

    Rob
     
  7. Deacon

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    I was a little slow last night.
    icthus, you wrote: “The context must determine the meaning in some cases, and not our theological bent.” Spurgeon’s statement below is quite clear and true. No need to disparage Calvin or bring up the topic of “limited atonement” here.
    In 1 Timothy (2:3, 4), the phrase, “all men” is actually broader than the “literal” meaning. :eek:
    It obviously means “all mankind”. :D
    It presents little problem for those that believe in either theological bent. The problem lies in determining what “God’s will” is in the matter. Is God’s will His desire, or His decree. But that’s for another thread.

    Rob
     

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