10 of my favorite warning Scriptures to Christians vs. OSAS

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by evangelist-7, Jun 22, 2013.

  1. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    Mark 9:43-48
    If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed,
    rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—
    … And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame,
    rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—
    … And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God
    with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire—
    This makes a nice case for the necessity of being sanctified unto holiness (i.e. removal of sin)!

    John 15:1-6
    Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes,
    that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
    Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine,
    neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches.
    He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
    If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered;
    and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
    Christians who do not bear fruit are not abiding in Jesus, and are rejected as worthless.

    Rom 8:1-13 •
    There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,
    who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
    … that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us
    who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
    … For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
    Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God,
    nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
    … For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
    but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
    Christians who are carnally-minded (walking in the flesh) are headed for eternal death.

    1 Cor 15:1-2 •
    Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you,
    which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved,
    if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
    Christians who do not continue in the faith and believing in the gospel have believed in vain.
    This agrees with what Jesus said about first counting the cost of discipleship.


    Col 1:21-23 •
    And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works,
    yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy,
    and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—if indeed you continue in the faith,
    grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard
    Jesus will sanctify Christians unto holiness, IF they steadfastly continue in the faith.

    Heb 3:6 •
    … but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are
    if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
    Christians really belong to Christ IF they hold fast their confidence firm to the end.

    Heb 10:35-39 •
    Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. For you have need
    of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:
    “For yet a little while, and He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
    Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.”
    But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
    Christians who do not continue to live by faith have actually drawn back to perdition.

    James 1:12-16
    Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved,
    he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
    … But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
    Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown,
    brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
    Christians who fail to overcome the temptation to sin, and do so grievously, do so unto eternal death.

    1 Jn 2:3-5 •
    Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
    He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
    Christians know they truly love God, and are really "in Christ", when they are keeping His commandments.

    Rev 2:10-11 •
    Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear
    what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.
    Christians are "overcoming" when they are continuing until death ...
    their faith, their sanctification unto holiness, their overcoming sin, and their victory over Satan!
    This is what Jesus did when He overcame (Rev 3:21).

    IMO, all of the disobedience, rebellion, habitual sin, etc. of which Christians are guilty ...
    can be confessed and repented of, enabling them to be fully restored back into God's grace!
    However, there are some NT passages which really seem to indicate otherwise.

    .
     
  2. steaver

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    If this is what you believe, then it is no more grace but works which saves.

    In light of the scriptures you posted here, you will have to explain Ephesians 2:8-10..."for by grace are ye SAVED through Faith....NOT of YOURSELVES.....it is a GIFT of God...created UNTO good works.
     
  3. steaver

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    Then all are lost, for all sin everyday. Are you sinless?
     
  4. steaver

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    Do you bear fruit everyday? What of those dry periods in your life? Are you lost those times?
     
  5. steaver

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    This one is not a anti-OSAS issue. It is actually a pro-OSAS passage. Those who hold fast til the end are saved, those who did not were never truly saved. Scripture allows for false converts.
     
    #5 steaver, Jun 22, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2013
  6. steaver

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    This passage is actually a Eternal Security doctrine for the conclusion is...

    "But we (true Christians) are not of them (false professors) who draw back unto perdition; but of them (true Christians) that believe to the saving of the soul"
     
  7. steaver

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    You do realize Jesus, being God, could not sin. Jesus needed no sanctification. Jesus laid down His life for your sinful life, that you may be freely justified through faith, not of works, not of fruits, not of yourself, but of Grace!
     
  8. The Biblicist

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    Don't attempt to be an expositor of God's Word as these texts jerked out of context demonstrate that is not your calling.

    If you understood the meaning of the very first proof text you offer above you would never use it against OSAS as it condemns your own position.

    There are some abc's of bible hermeneutics you need to understand before you will properly understand your first selected proof text. One is notice who he is talking to? He is not talking to Christians, or to those who were once saved and then lost. He is talking to people who believe that righteousness and wickedness can be restricted to externals only rather than motives behind thoughts, words and deeds.

    How would you deal with such an audiance in a very practical way??? How about if you think if lust is external only, then remove all external MEANS used to sin. If adultery is a sin then remove your eyeball. If killing is external only then remove your arm that weilds the weapon. If taking care of externals removes you from the danger of hell then by all means start cutting out eyes, arms, feet and etc. as it is better to have all the external means removed then to go to hell.

    You see, the problem is not externals but with the heart and its motive. All thoughts, words and actions flow from the heart.

    However, you are supposed to be the "spiritual" one on this forum are you not? Are you not always boasting in your spiritual gifts? Seems you are lacking the gift of spiritual discernment.
     
  9. steaver

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    One is either in God's Grace or one is not. There is no in and out back and forth depending on if you are having a good faithful day or a faithless day. Christians need to study and understand born-again! This would clear all of this sanctification verses justification process up.

    The only "fully restored" grace possible is regeneration through faith in Jesus Christ, the Author and Finisher of our faith. It is not what you do for Christ but what Christ has done for you which justifies. Sanctification is a whole other subject, why do folks get these two subjects so mixed and mashed together?

    Let's talk about obedience since you brought it up. Have you sold all of your goods and given them to the poor yet?? When you get that done Evangel, come back and we can talk about going into all the earth and making disciples.

    How about rebellion? Well that could fall inline with going into all the world and baptizing, how we doing with that one? Hope your not in rebellion on this and not doing it.

    And let's take a look at that habitual sin, how we doing with what the Lord has provided for us? Are you wasting any money say taking unnecessary trips or buying toys we don't need or buying snacks and candies we don't need, how about those fast food joints, eating any fatty foods lately, you know this body of ours is the Temple of the Holy Spirit. How about TV programs, do we have a habit of watching any particular shows that have sin openly displayed or encouraged. And how are we doing with the tongue, oh the gossip, have we got that habit all under control there?

    When I take a good look at myself in the mirror each day I say thank you Jesus for saving a pathetic sinner like me!! What filthy rags I offer Him each day. If not for the grace of God I would be slain each and every day for the sins that surge through my mind and flesh. I will boast in nothing else and certainly not in myself, but Jesus Christ and His righteousness!!!
     
  10. Salty

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    The only thing worse than an ultra-long post - is a post where the entire ultra-long post is quoted.

    Evangelist - you have started so many threads on anti-OSAS - and how many converts do you have.

    Can any one say ignore list.......
     
  11. JohnDeereFan

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    Arminians, behold your disciple!
     
  12. evangelist-7

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    It troubles me greatly that ...

    There have been many millions of "Christians" down through the ages
    who were taught OSAS and hence did not take Christianity seriously.
    They never were true disciples of Jesus, and were eternally lost.

    This includes both intellectual "Christians" and born-again Christians.

    OSAS is "easy believism" ...versus... true believing unto discipleship and sanctification.

    I feel compelled to warn the Christians of today to really take their Christianity seriously.
    As do the dozens of NT warnings/threats which were written to Christians.

    Another warning:
    The NT was written by a genius at mixing the following all together:
    blessings, promises, edifications, explanations, warnings, exhortations, threats, praises, encouragements, etc.
    You almost need to be a "word meister" to understand what really is being said.
    I.E. Mixing praises, etc. in with a warning does not cancel out the validity of the warning!
    And having the Holy Spirit's enlightenment sure doesn't hurt also!

    .
     
    #12 evangelist-7, Jun 22, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2013
  13. The Biblicist

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    Yes, it also trouble JW's, Mormon's and SDA too. Their view of salvation is no different then your view - not one iota! - ultimate justification by works.

    What is really troubling is that you are repudiating Christ as a sufficient Savior and repudiating His work as a complete satisfaction and don't even realize it.
     
  14. steaver

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    Now think about what you just said here brother. There are no such statistics that I ever heard of that could cause you to come to such a conclusion. I think it is a case of over dramatizing your convictions. And maybe those convictions are based on some not so sound evidences??

    They are two separate doctrines. I believe in OSAS and I believe in "true believing unto discipleship and sanctification"

    As do I every day.

    And this is why we need to study and rightly divide the word of truth, praying for the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth, and deliberating together with unbiased opinions so we may get to the truth and base our faith on sound doctrines.
     
  15. The Biblicist

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    This is an outright attack on the sufficiency and satisfaction of the Person and redemptive work of Jesus Christ. This is the assertion of a co-redeemer, a co-savior. This is a complete denial that Jesus completely satisfied or finished the work of redemption but asserts that man must complete it through his own works.

    The sad thing is that this poster has not read too carefully or not at all the personal experiences of those who embrace OSAS or he would never make such outlandish, insulting and erroneous statements.

    This position assumes there is no such thing as false professors and/or the Bible provides evidence of falls "profession."

    Persons like this are advertising their own ignorance of the new birth and what it entails. Yet, no matter how much evidence you give them; no matter how many times you place their twisted proof texts back into the proper Biblical context they come back repeating them and ignoring all contextual evidence that they are perverting the scriptures by their rash hands.

    Jesus told some who held the very same belief presented by this poster;

    "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
    27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand
    .


    He is not presenting CONDITIONS for eternal life but presenting CHARACTERISTICS of those who are His sheep. There are no conditional clauses in English or Greek here. This is a flat out assertion.

    In verse 27 the words "any man" is a translation of "tis" which means ANYTHING. In verse 28 the words "any man" represents the Greek word "dunamai" which means NOTHING. Every phrase repudiates the doctrine of saved and lost.

    Jesus Christ repeatedly repudiates the false doctrine of saved and lost in contexts that explicitly address whether a true child of God can be lost in the future - Jn. 5:25; 6:37-40; 10:26-30.
     
  16. The Biblicist

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    Well said! Easy believism requires no true repentance or fruit of repentance but is usually due to pressure evangelism. True gospel conversion is evidence by a complete change of motive for living and a completely different and negative view of sin. Good works are the fruit of a regenerative nature under the power and leadership of the Spirit of God. We certainly do not comfort anyone who professes to be a true Christian but demonstrates by the fruits of their mouth and lifestyle no change. False doctrine is also a fruit of the flesh. Indeed, I constantly challenge such a condition as Paul did in 2 Cor. 13:8

    Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
     
    #16 The Biblicist, Jun 22, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2013
  17. steaver

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    Amen! :thumbsup:
     
  18. evangelist-7

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    The precious blood that Christ shed on Calvary's Cross was more than sufficient to atone for
    the sins of the whole world, i.e. whoever was elected before the foundation of the world.

    These special "elect" ones proved through their lives to be faithful disciples of Jesus ...
    ... all of the way through to the end of their lives.
    They were born again with the precious Holy Spirit inside of them.
    This is God's free gift of grace-faith-salvation, which commences at this point.
    God's grace continues as long as the BACs continue in the faith, i.e. obedience, etc.
    The promises and blessings are only for these elect BACs, not for disobedient BACs.
    The elect took Jesus' commands seriously, as well as His warnings.
    They also took the teachings and warnings of the epistle writers seriously.
    They co-operated with the Holy Spirit in their sanctification process,
    which is to say they listened to His voice, was led by Him, and obeyed Him.
    They did not leave the faith and go back to their "old man" lives of sin.
    They repented of their sins to the best of their ability, i.e. they had no habitual (unrepented of) sins.

    BACs who failed to live as outlined above ...
    possibly had a chance on their death beds to repent and return to be in God's grace.
    In which case, they were elect after all.

    .
     
    #18 evangelist-7, Jun 22, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2013
  19. steaver

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    What you have done here is you have began with the Elect of God proving they are the Elect of God through their submission to God, and then you closed with the possibility that the Elect of God can fail to be the Elect of God.

    Are they the Elect of God before the foundation of the world or not?? If Elect then it is set in stone and declared before the foundation of the world. There is no in and out of election based on performance and repentance.
     
  20. steaver

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    Evangelist, how often would you say you sin? Once a year, once a month, once a week, once a day, once an hour ??? Or would you say you do not sin??
     

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