100 % Grace + 10% Works

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Feb 29, 2008.

  1. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    My problem with those that say that doing sin "A" will keep you out of heaven is not that they substitute works for grace but that they ADD works to grace.

    It is so hard to pin them down because they will tell you they believe in 100% grace but by what they say and practice they add works.
    And I am talking about works that if you do or don't do can mean you really aren't saved.

    This is adding to the Gospel and is heresy.
     
  2. JerryL

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    In the words of the younger generation, "True Dat".
     
  3. Dale-c

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    Jerry, what part of KY are you from?
    I was just down there a few weeks ago.
    I was working in several different places.

    I was in Henderson, Owensboro, Branedburg, Elizabethtown and several others near Louisville that I can't remember now.

    It is a pretty state but I don't know if I would like to live there when it snows and have to drive on snowy hills :)
     
  4. JerryL

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    180 miles East of Louisville. In the real "Hills of Kentucky."
     
  5. Dale-c

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    It has been a while since i was htat far east :)

    You know, I think I am closer to Louisville than you are.
    It only takes me a little over 2 hours to get there,
     
  6. JerryL

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    I worked in LaFayette once.
     
  7. Danny Hurley

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    100% Grace + 10% Works

    We are saved by Grace through faith, James says, show me thy Faith without works and i show you my Faith by my works.
     
  8. Dale-c

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    Yes, that is right.
    I doubt the salvation of anyone who doesn't show an evidence of God's grace in his life.

    BUt that said, there isn't a magic sin that we see that overpowers the blood of Christ and negates our salvation.

    I used to struggle between the times that I felt I was doing "good" and the times I failed.
    Was I a good person or bad?

    Then I realized from scripture it was both.
    When I did right, it was God's grace showing fruit in my life and when I did wrong, it was my own sinful heart showing fruit in my life.

    Even after salvation it is only by grace that we can keep from sinning.
     
  9. TCGreek

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    Dale-c, I feel you.

    We have doubts at times, but yes, it is still 100% grace from the beginning to the end.

    Good thread, btw. :thumbs:
     
  10. TCGreek

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    And isn't it instructive to note that James doesn't contradict Paul but complements him?
     
  11. standingfirminChrist

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    James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
     
  12. Crabtownboy

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    Faith and Works

    1. Jesus did not talk a lot about believing, but a lot about doing.
    2. Yes, Paul and Timothy are not opposing each other. Show me your works and I will show you your faith.
    3. Martin Luther said, "Sin and sin mightly." I believe he meant ... well for heavens sake do something. You may be wrong, but at least you tried. To do nothing is always wrong."
    4. Anyone can say, "I believe." But if those words are not shown in the person's life than I doubt they will have much meaning when they "get to heaven." Cheap grace is too often preached whereas. True discipleship may prove costly. "

    "cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ." Or, to put it even more clearly, it is to hear the gospel preached as follows: "Of course you have sinned, but now everything is forgiven, so you can stay as you are and enjoy the consolations of forgiveness." The main defect of such a proclamation is that it contains no demand for discipleship." [D. Bonhoeffer]:tonofbricks:
     
  13. pinoybaptist

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    Very same Scripture used by those who told me I was saved by grace, and then proceeded to give me the cold shoulder because I wasn't like them.
    I still smoked, I still liked movies, I sometimes missed church, I didn't tithe as often, I still liked playing basketball with the "heathen" instead of the "brethren", I still admired beautiful women other than my wife, I still liked comic books, I still had a tendency to "blow my top" and thence to need to "wash my mouth".

    Oh, my.

    I felt so unworthy to walk in the company of all these "blessed and saved" children.

    When basically all James was saying is that the true child of God manifests the same grace that saved them.

    Love of God, love of truth, love of the brethren, humility, discretion (the tongue, which coincidentally, jives with what Paul says about speaking with salt in your tongue, or something to that effect), non-preference as to tribe, race, tongue (which basically jives in with what the Book of Revelation says of God's elect coming from ALL tongues, tribes, and kindred), close fellowship, and INSTRUCTING one another, not condemning one another.

    And incidentally, James calls them all brethren up to the end of the book, including those whom he called "adulterers, adulteresses, friends of the world" and so on.

    Like Paul to the Corinthians, he never disowned them.

    Sin blocks the blessings in a believer's life on this plane which is its natural result, just as blessings are the natural results of obedience, but it no longer separates him from Christ and bars him from heaven, and ALL sin have been paid for by Christ and in Christ.

    In the Old Testament, David deliberately committed adultery and murder. Yet God told him thru Nathan: "Your sin has also been put away".
    But the consequences of sin in his life God did not hinder.
     
  14. EdSutton

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    'Zackly!

    This is 'another' gospel! (Gal. 1:8-10)

    How many ways can I say it or define it, although I can't call it heresy, and still post?

    Ed
     
  15. christianyouth

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    Dale, the grace that justifies, sanctifies.

    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] 1 John 3:7 - Little children let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, even as he(Christ) is righteous.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] 1 John 3:8 - Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] 1 John 3:9 - No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] That word practice is important. No one is denying that Christians can fall into grievous sin. The Bible makes it clear that we CAN walk in the flesh. It makes it clear that we can partake of the sinful activities of the world. We can backslide. It is constant warfare. But in a Christians life there will be a growing defeat of sin because "he that began a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ."(phil 1:6)

    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] 1 John 3:10 By this is it [/FONT]evident[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil : whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

    There are a ton of other verses that draw a line between the lost and the saved by their behavior. Gal 5:19-21, Rev. 21:8, Mt 7:14ff, Jude's condemnation of the false teachers based on their doctrine but also their lifestyle, it really is all over.

    I suggest the entire book of 1 John to answer this question.
    [/FONT]
     
  16. JustChristian

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    You miss the point. There is a lot of scripture that says that salvation is always followed by fruit (what you call works). Without this evidence of a born again experience there was and is not salvation.

    This is stated clearly by Paul in Romans 6.

    Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
    Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

    Also in James 2.

    Jam 2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
    Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
    Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?
    Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    I think many people reject these Biblical principles because they would rather continue in their sin than produce fruit as Christ commanded.
     
  17. LeBuick

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    I love the way you put that TC. I wish others would realize this.
     
  18. Outsider

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    Hi everyone,

    I also agree that this is a nice thread.

    It is all Grace

    Here is were the works come in:

    Eph 2:10
    For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
     
  19. LeBuick

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    Yes, it is all grace that we are saved lest any man should boast. Your only work if there is one is your faith. All the rest including what Pauls says above is a product of that faith.

    28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
    29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
     
  20. Brother Bob

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    You must believe. How can you come to God, if you do not believe there is a God?

    BBob, :godisgood:
     

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