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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Rippon, Mar 9, 2006.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon
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    I thought I would speak of some primary things one needs to understand regarding some key doctrine . If you really do believe that the Bible is true give a listen .

    In John 10:26 Jesus said -- You do not believe because you are not my sheep . In the following verse He said -- My sheep listen to my voice ; I know them and they follow me . In John 10:11,15 it says He laid down His life for His sheep . Apparently all are not His sheep .

    In John 6;44,65 Jesus said that the Father causes some to be drawn to Jesus , and nobody else . In John 12:32 Jesus said ... I will draw all [mine ] to myself .

    In John 5:21 it says that the Son gives life to those He is pleased to give it . In Matt. 11:27 ...No one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him . Luke 10:22 agrees .

    Also in Luke 10:21 the Word of God says that Christ has hidden these things from some and revealed them to others because it was the Father's pleasure . See Matt. for more of the same . Jesus deliberately used parables when speaking to the crowds . He used that form of teaching not to make it easy for people to understand His message , but to hide the truth . Yet when He was with His disciples He explained what his mysterious words meant .

    Christ will gather His elect from the four winds , from the ends of the earth , He will not lose any of His chosen ones . But He has not desired to reveal Himself to all . Isaiah 53:1 states : -- To whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed ?

    [ March 09, 2006, 11:24 PM: Message edited by: Rippon ]
     
  2. Jacob Dahlen

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  3. Brian30755

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    I wish I could understand why, every so often, some mean-spirited person feels the need to get on here and tell everybody that they believe that some people are destined to burn in hell because they aren't "chosen". What if it's your mother who isn't one of the "elect"? You gonna tell her "Sorry Mom, wish there was something someone could do, but you weren't chosen so you're going to hell".
     
  4. USN2Pulpit

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    Here's another fundamental doctrine: "Go ye therefore." See, we don't get to decide who is "the elect," so this never-ending debate becomes a huge waste of time. And the more time we waste arguing about it instead of taking care of the business we are given to do, the more we sin. It's a ridiculous debate to be in. I might dare to say that Satan is pleased when the saints of God are sidetracked and divided by this (and others) issue. Move on to more important things!
     
  5. Rippon

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    We don't know who the elect or the reprobate are . We leave that up to the Lord .

    Why is it considered mean-spirited to advance the cause of truth by quoting Scripture on a given subject ? Should sentiment and personal philosophy take precedence ?
     
  6. James_Newman

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    Of course the Good Shepherd layed His life down for the sheep. How else would a sheep be saved? Does this mean that a dog can't be saved as well?

    Matthew 15:24-28
    24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
    25 Then came she and worshiped him, saying, Lord, help me.
    26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
    27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
    28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
     
  7. Tom Butler

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    I have a friend and Christian brother who posts regularly on this board, who avidly reads all the posts on the subject of the Doctrines of Grace, because he is still looking and listening. He is a typical modern Baptist hybrid who is certainly not Arminian in the classic sense, but stops short of embracing Calvinism. But he is willing to be convinced. So as far as I'm concerned, for his sake, have at it.

    Tom B.
     
  8. pinoybaptist

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    Well, now, I guess Jehovah of the old Testament is a pretty mean spirited One, eh ? He elects Israel, but not other nations. He loved Jacob, and hated Esau.

    And then Jehovah who became flesh was even more mean spirited since He spoke of His elect as well, eh ? Remember
    atthew 24:22, 31 and Mark 13:20 ?

    But, hey, I guess Paul is pretty mean spirited as well, and a braggart, too, boasting of his stripes and all.

    Now, Peter also, who walked with the mean spirited Jesus, also spoke of God's electing grace, so I guess Peter is not only a loud mouth, and talks too fast, but is every bit as mean spirited as Jesus.

    So, I guess those are pretty good company, you can call me mean spirited anytime.
     
  9. James_Newman

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    Do you have stripes?
     
  10. pinoybaptist

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    No. But I understand that like you, Paul, Peter, John, Calvin, Wesley, and all previously unregenerate men, I had spots like a Leopard until God in His mercy removed them, and not because I prayed a silly prayer but because it was Jehovah's will to cleanse my spots and wash them away.
    I also understand that until God adopted me, at no prompting from anyone, most especially this sinner, I was a castaway, and that is worse than any stripe you can ever inflict on me.
     
  11. Me4Him

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    OH MERCY!!!

    I just found a verse that says "ALL GENTILES" are "Predestined" to Hell.

    Matthew 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


    It must be the Gentiles who are the "vessels fit for destruction", because "ALL ISRAEL" is going to be saved.

    "MERCY", wish I'd been born a "Jews".

    Might as well sell my "ocean front property" here in Tennesse and enjoy it while I can, anyone want to buy it, cheap??? :D [​IMG]
     
  12. genesis12

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    Classic dispensationalism should help each of you to sort all this out. Then the "never ending debate" will end. You must, of course, be born again in order to spiritually discern, to rightly divide, scripture.
     
  13. Rippon

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    More 101 . Do you all agree that only certain people's names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life ? This was done before the foundation of the world , and He was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world . Only some names were recorded in t LBoL -- multiplied millions perhaps , but not the names of all humans past , present and future .

    Christ died only for the ones recorded . No one else . Can it rightly be said that He died for those whose names are not written in the Book of Life ?

    The nams are personal , individual -- He died for particular ones -- not possible believers -- not a generalized mass of humanity . His grace was a distinguishing grace given to those with no merit whatsoever .
     
  14. ituttut

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    Agree for while on earth He was only interested in the house of Israel, ”But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
    Yes, for He is talking to His nation in 6, as well as 12, but in 12 we to know what He is talking about, but they in that day couldn’t fathom His words, “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.[/I] There are just too many verses backing up Matthew 16:9 to allow us to believe any one, even the Apostles, could comprehend what Jesus was saying. After Pentecost the Apostles after receiving the Holy Ghost were then able to understand what was written and what was said in the Old Testament. Even then they did not have all that they would know a few years later.
    Amen! The Father raises, and Christ Jesus also whom He will. Such powerful words with so much to see in His unsearchable riches.
    Yes agree He explained, and they understood what they could without the Holy Ghost, as shown in Matthew 16:23. We know a number of years after Israel is cut-off, He would have more to say to all of us.
    Amen! We will be witness to all this while we are in heaven as the “hundred and forty four thousand Jews’ are sealed. It all becomes so much clearer after Damascus Road when we find, regardless of what we may hear, we are not to be disturbed or become agitated over the events to come.

    Christian faith, ituttut
     
  15. Me4Him

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    Ps 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous. (in the lambs book)

    Jesus's book (Lamb's) in written in "HIS BLOOD", it can't be blotted out.

    Mt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    God isn't "constrained" by "time", you can be saved tommorow, God can wait until day after tommorow, reach back to the beginning to write your name and it will have been so "from the beginning".

    God is a little bit bigger than your "mind" can comprehend. :D [​IMG]
     
  16. Calvibaptist

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    The point is that the book of life was written "from the foundation of the world." So God is not going to react to something that He didn't plan for and have to go back in time to make an adjustment. This is almost a joke.

    And, according to Matthew 26:28 that you quoted, for how many people was Jesus' blood shed? Answer - Many. Does many here mean all? Do you want to change the meaning of words?
     
  17. Rippon

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    Eph. was written to the saints -- believers . So in 5:2 it says that Christ loved us and gave himself up for us . In 5:25 it states that Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her .

    Therefore the " us " is referring to the church only -- no one else . The church of God which He shed with His own blood .

    In Matt. 25:32-34 -- All the nations will be gathered before Him , and will He will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats . He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on His left .Then the King will say to those on His right , " Come you who are blessed by My Father ; take your inheritance , the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world . "

    In verse 41 -- Then He will say to those on His left , " Depart from Me , you who are cursed , into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels . "


    Many creatures are used to personify evil-doers in the Bible . Some people are considered as pigs , dogs , wolves , snakes and vipers . But at the Final Judgment that Matt. 25 is describing , it all boils down to folks being either sheep or goats . The sheep are his elect ones going to glory . The goats , however , are reprobates destined for Hell .
     
  18. Rippon

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    Some Not So Random Thoughts

    Can the personal choices of people be outside the range of the things that have been determined in God's eternal purpose ?

    Are there any exceptions when the Bible speaks of God's government of everything and everyone ? Is anything outside of God's eternal plan ?

    Can God's plan be broken in upon here and there by the actions of people ?

    To fall into the hands of the living God is a fearful thing according to the Bible . Isn't that a very different thing than being in the grip of impersonal fate ? Aren't fate and biblical theism polar opposites ?

    God is love . Is God only love ?

    Should we be surprised that some are doomed for Hell or that some have been destined for glory ? Which one is the most surprising ?

    Shouldn't we be happy to be God's vessels in gathering into His kingdom any of those who from all eternity belong to Him ?
     
  19. Rippon

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    Isn't biblical election where God , and not man chooses ?

    Since ( not if ) God chooses , are we not therefore enabled to believe by Him , and not under our own power ?

    If someone misses the above point , don't they miss out on a central teaching of Scripture ? Haven't they lost out on the true meaning of grace ?

    How many non-Calvinists preach/teach on election -- even the non-Calvinist -- hence non-biblical variety ?

    Isn't the Lord the absolute Master of the hearts of humanity ? Isn't He the King who rules with absolute sovereignty with no exceptions whatsoever ?

    Hmmm ...?
     
  20. ituttut

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    But while alive, Jesus said He only came for His own. He told His little flock that He would die for them, but they didn’t believe Him. There is a church and then there is a Church. The church earthly, and the Church Spiritually. We today are of the Body of Christ Church.
    Amen! Those of Israel on His right will come to their King for in “covenant” they were promised an inheritance.
    Amen!
    Amen again as that is scripture. We should be so happy that Christ from heaven had more to say about our salvation today, giving us more scripture of enlightenment with understanding, that He could not while He lived as man on the earth.

    Christ revealed to Paul that we today are in the Body of Christ, and we see in the Gospel of John that it supports this view for we will be like Christ. This is the joy and peace we are to have in Christ today, knowing now our final destination and we will be the image of Him.

    Christian faith, ituttut
     

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