106,400 and counting...

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Pennsylvania Jim, Nov 30, 2004.

  1. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim
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    ...babies killed since the election.

    ...While Christians gloat over the "victory" in re-installing GW Bush and the GOP congress.

    Not a word from any of them on a plan to do anything about it.

    The last election pretty much killed the pro-life movement. It proved to the GOP leadership that they need do nothing about the slaughter to gain the huge evangelical vote.

    But, we're gleeful that "our guys" got back in.

    How tragic.
     
  2. Johnv

    Johnv
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    Then write to your local DC representatives and encourage them to reintroduce the Partial Birth abortion ban, but with a health exception.

    I've found that those who cry about the whole staircase are often unwilling to address a single tread.
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    [​IMG] The number would have been just as high or higher had Kerry been elected. Peroutka was a non-factor. Bush will be nominating 2-4 SC justices in the next four years. This is where the difference will be made over time, and not in an instant. You see, unlike Peroutka, who believes he can wave his magic wand, and poof, good-bye Roe v Wade, Bush actually lives in the real world and understands politics and how to get things done in Washington. Yet another reason I am happy he was elected and Peroutka wasn't.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim
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    Yeah, babies being burned to death with saline solution. Isn't that just funny.

    "Hey, little one, tough luck, but you would have been killed if the evil Kerry had been electod anyway. Now, what's for dinner?".

    God help us when the most innocent of human lives are nothing more than a political prop for our favorite politicians.
     
  5. Johnv

    Johnv
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    Not to mention that, if Roe v Wade were overturned tomorrow, abourtion would not be illegal. It was not illegal before, and it will not be illegal aferwards. Rather, it would be up to the states to regulate and limit it as they see fit. The claim that Roe v Wade "legalized abortion" is a false claim made originally by pro-life non-profit groups as a tactic to raise funds for their cause.

    I'm no supporter of abortion, but the ultra-rightwing political activists who use this as an issue are doing mainline conservatives a significant injustice.
     
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    You are correct. Roe v Wade only federalized abortion and took the decision out of the hands of the states where it rightfully belongs. Overturning it might not stop it, but it sure would open up the possibility of many ballot initiatives in the next election, and we would not see near as much permitted in these United States as we do now. I would still support the overturning of Roe v Wade even though it would not stop abortion in all states.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  7. Brian25jerzey

    Brian25jerzey
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    I think allot of christians dont understand they can elect Bush and he can say he'll introduce a constitutional amendment to ban abortion(like it said on his campain website in 2000)

    However if you dont demmand side abortion your acomlishing absolutly nothing. Both democrats and republicans recognize abortion as a social problem. And if abortions are banned from legal clinics thell be conducted in places like Canada or in back alleys where disbarred doctors will practise it. (Even though americans are going as far as china looking for kids to adopt)

    What id rather hear from the christian community is how were going to address demmand for abortion. And then how are we going to take care of these kids after there born. If there was a solid christian network of chrisitan homes taking care of these kids uncommited mothers would be more likely to pursue a abdoption alternative.

    Thanks Brian
     
  8. Johnv

    Johnv
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    From a social POV, the best way to eliminate elective abortion is to eliminate the cause of elective abortion: we need to prevent the pregnancy in the first place. The best way to do that is to instill chastity, and, barring chastity, responsibility.

    In other words, don't go out in the rain, but if you're stupid enough to go out in the rain, the least you should do is wear a raincoat.
     
  9. Turpius

    Turpius
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    but...but.....but that would be reasonable and logical! :eek: We can't have that around here!!!!
     
  10. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim
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    So, you guys are pro-choice?
     
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    I did not say that. I am living in the real world however. We can defeat this evil, but it is going to take some realism and time. Bush cannot just wave his magic wand and poof, no more abortions.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  12. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim
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    Who suggested a magic wand?

    Maybe he could urge Congress to get control of the federal judiciary. Maybe he could announce that the Justice Department will not enforce any laws protecting the availability of abortion.

    When he wanted to pass a massive socialized medicine bill, he pulled a big power play and got what he wanted.

    Too bad he won't fight for the unborn.

    Worse yet that Christians are so willing to sit by and support his inaction and the inaction of congress.

    But, I guess when it's not your neck imn the noose it's easy to say "be patient, vote GOP, and maybe after 10 or 20 million more Americans are murdered someone will decide to stop it. What's the big emergency?".

    It's amazing that folks are eager to support the prospect of a generation of bloody warfare in response to the attack on 9/11 (I support killing the terrorists, too...I wish we could kill each of them twice), but say "just be patient" as EVERY DAY THERE ARE AS MANY KILLED AS WERE KILLED ON 9/11.

    It's all politics, I suppose. Too bad. &lt;snipped by moderator&gt;.

    &lt;Please do not be purposefully inflammatory in your posts&gt;

    [ December 01, 2004, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]
     
  13. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim
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    In light of the above posts, I'm still asking Brian25Jersey and Johnv if they're pro-choice.
     
  14. Johnv

    Johnv
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    I'm against elective abortions as a rule. I'm not against abortions for medically necessary reasons (preserving the life and health of the mother). Also, while I personally believe that life begins at conception, I concede that this position is not scripturally supportable, and, as such, have no basis for insisting that others agree with me on that position. I believe that churches who take a doctrinal "life begins at conception" stance are as wrong as doctrinal KJVOism. However, churches that support elective abortion (political issue aside) are completely wrong, imo.

    In short, no, I'm not pro-choice.
     
  15. Scott J

    Scott J
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    And if rape is continues to be illegal, rapists will have to hide their activities. Therefore, we should legalize rape and create rape clinics to reduce the risks to the rapist. :rolleyes:

    The bottom line on abortion is when does someone become a person entitled to their God-given right to live. There is already a well established scientific precedent that someone is alive if they have a self-sustaining heartbeat and favorable prognosis for living. I think an argument can and should be made that it occurs when a unique human DNA appears in the womb.

    As a minimum, I believe it should immediately be illegal to perform an abortion if a fetal heartbeat can be detected.
     
  16. Johnv

    Johnv
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    I've said this before, and been called a liberal for it. Go figure. I agree with you Scott, 100%.
     
  17. Scott J

    Scott J
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    Uh-oh...

    I guess I had better qualify quickly ;) by saying that I believe the debate should continue after this minimum is met.

    This is not what I would consider an acceptable final solution but rather an intermediate.
     
  18. Scott J

    Scott J
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    Roe v Wade should be overturned because it was a ridiculously bad decision and grievious over-reach by the court.

    The 4th Amendment doesn't come close to establishing a right to an abortion.
     
  19. Johnv

    Johnv
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    Again, I agree with you still. [​IMG]
     
  20. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill
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    In addition to getting roe vs wade overturned we need to get the judiciary held in check period. Don't get down on Joseph he has a grasp of political reality.
     

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