12 precepts

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Ps104_33, Jan 27, 2007.

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  1. Ps104_33

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    What do think of these twelve precepts? Do you agree with some of them? none of them? Do any seem racist? If so which ones?


    1. Commitment to God
    2. Commitment to the Black Community
    3. Commitment to the Black Family
    4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
    5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
    6. Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
    7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
    8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
    9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
    10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
    11. Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
    12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.
     
  2. Filmproducer

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    PS104_33

    What is your obsession with the black community? Get over it already. There is nothing wrong with black people working to strengthen their community, especially considering the fact that many here are quick to point out the perceived deficiencies in it.
     
  3. carpro

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    Strange covenant for a Church of Christ.

    I wonder if they even allow white, Asian, or Hispanic members. I wouldn't subscribe to a covenant so non inclusive.

    Let's try it this way and see how it sounds:
    1. Commitment to God
    2. Commitment to the White Community
    3. Commitment to the White Family
    4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
    5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
    6. Adherence to the White Work Ethic
    7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
    8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
    9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the White Community
    10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting White Institutions
    11. Pledge allegiance to all White leadership who espouse and embrace the White Value System
    12. Personal commitment to embracement of the White Value System.
    What do you think?:confused:
     
  4. Ps104_33

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    My exact point. It sounds ugly when you turn it around doesnt it. By the way. Where did I get these?

    http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

    This is from the web site of the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago where Barak Obama attends. Aryan Nations couldnt come up with a better creed.
     
  5. DeeJay

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    In fact it sounds alot like the precepts of white supremacist gangs.

    If this was spoken to a comunity of only black people then it would be alright. But if it is for a church (that is suposto be) open to all people then it is racist.

    I would not feel welcome in this church, that makes it wrong. I hope all people would feel welcome in my church.
     
  6. The Galatian

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    1. Commitment to God
    2. Commitment to the White Community
    3. Commitment to the White Family
    4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
    5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
    6. Adherence to the White Work Ethic
    7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
    8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
    9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the White Community
    10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting White Institutions
    11. Pledge allegiance to all White leadership who espouse and embrace the White Value System
    12. Personal commitment to embracement of the White Value System.
    What do you think?:confused:

    Fundamentalism, in the 1960s.
     
  7. Filmproducer

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    Again, it is a BLACK church within the BLACK community. How many of you have ever gone to a black church in the black community? I have, and I was as welcome as anyone. They are not trying to exclude anyone, only strengthen THEIR community. Did any of you even bother to read their Trumpet magazine? Did you notice at least two WHITE people in the "2007 Honorees for the Annual Trumpet Awards"?

    Again, I ask, what is the big deal considering many of you are quick to point out the perceived deficiencies in the black community? I mean c'mon, either black people are ignoring the problems in their community or they are racist for trying to solve the problems in their community. Which is it? You can't have it both ways. :rolleyes:
     
  8. Ps104_33

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    Once again film producer you seem to take great pride in the fact that you mingle with blacks. Good for you . You are a dedicated politically-correct liberal. I am sure that you cannot wait to pull the lever for Barak Obama totally because of his skin color. But that is not the point. As a member of that church, and following at least seven of those twelve precepts, he will only represent a small percentage of Americans.
     
  9. Filmproducer

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    Of course I take great pride in the black community. My husband is black, and so are my children. You make it seem as if it is a vile, evil thing. "Ooh, that white woman mingles with black people, that that PC LIBERAL". If it makes me liberal, instead of my actual political views, so be it. :rolleyes:

    Oh, as far as Obama is concerned. You have to be kidding, right? Taking pride in the black community and working to help the black community does not make one only concerned with black people. People are not so narrow-minded as you seem to be.
     
  10. billwald

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    >My husband is black, and so are my children.

    Why are they not white? Why does black plus anything else always equal black?
     
  11. Filmproducer

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    They are white and black, however in BB land I let people know they are black and I am proud of it. In the real world they are human, just like everyone else, and their skin color, or in this case the skin color of their father (because they look "white"), does not mean a darn thing.
     
  12. Bro. James Reed

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    If your husband's "color" "does not mean a darn thing", then why do you say you are "proud of it"?

    It seems like you're trying to "prove" too much here. We are all supposed to be Brothers and Sisters on this board, not because of our skin color, but because of our common belief in an Almighty God and our Savior Jesus Christ.

    To the subject of the thread:

    I would feel no more welcome in a church with this message than a black person would feel welcome in a "white" church with this message.

    My question would be, aside from the use of the Black throughout the document, why are almost all of this churches functions, all but one, having to deal with the community, rather than worshipping Christ and taking care of His church and people within that church?

    If George W. Bush had belonged to a church with this type of message about the white community, he would never have been elected President and would have labeled a racist. This would also have been front page headlines.

    I hope those of us here are no so close-minded as to think that our churches have a duty only to help a certain "color" of people. That is wrong and should be condemned. Of course, it won't be by many. That is shameful.
     
  13. Filmproducer

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    The church is in the middle of Chicago! It is in the heart of a black community. Why is this so hard to understand? You say you would not feel welcome in this church, but have you ever been? Have you ever been to a predominantly black church? I have actually been to quite a few black churches, and I have always felt welcome. Not trying to prove anything here, just trying to give a little insight.

    Like I asked before, and no one has answered. Either black people are ignoring the problems in their community or they are racist for trying to solve those problems. Which is it? It cannot be one thing one day, and something else the next. Make up your minds.

    FTR, I say I am proud of my husband's skin color, because to some on this board mingling with black people makes me a "pc liberal". Did you even look at the recent thread in the general baptist forum that totally and completely demeaned black people? To some on this board being black is like being part of a second-class society. I am proud of my family, and I don't care what color they are. My children are proud of their roots, both black and white. I will not now, or ever, be ashamed of who they are. If they are not taught to hide any part of their backgroud, why should I? BTW, did you even look at why I replied to PS 104_33 and billwald the way I did?
     
    #13 Filmproducer, Jan 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2007
  14. Filmproducer

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    Because contrary to popular belief, the church is actually a big part of the black community.
     
  15. Bro. James Reed

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    That is beside the point. My church is also in the middle of a "black community" yet we have no covenant that says we will do all of these things for the black community, exclusively. That would also be kind of silly. What if a "white" church had this covenant that said they would do all of these things for the "black" community? They would still be viewed as racists for believing that the black community needed any help from a white church. I don't care if it's a predominantly blue church in a blue neighborhood, racism runs both ways and this covenant is absolutely as racist as any that any old white church back in the segregation days ever had.



    I have never been to this church, but I don't need to go to know that I would be an outcast. I, after all, am not part of the black community and am therefore outside the parameters of their covenant. If I post a sign on the door of my church that says "We strive for the advancement of White people", should I expect a black visitor, or Spanish, Vietnamese, or Filipino visitor for that matter, to feel welcome? Would it matter how I act to someone's face if my church holds to a covenant of exclusion against people because of their skin color?

    I have been to several black churches, not in worship, but in working in A/C and Heating over the years. I go to Primitive Baptist churches, and there aren't any black Primitive Baptist churches in this area. At least, none which are scripturally sound. I go to my church because we all believe the same Bible doctrines and because they are my church family. I would never go to a church simply because it is white or black. If the gospel is there, that's where I want to be.

    I know many black church people and almost hands down they are all nice, Christian people. I would have difficulty believing that any of them have a covenant such as this. If they do, they are just as wrong as this church.

    I don't recall having said either. Black people do not have a responsibility to ignore or solve problems in communities based simply on the fact that a community is predominantly black. If they want to help a community that is less fortunate, then go ahead. My question is, how do they help non-black people who live in black communities, or are they not considered part of those communities? From this covenant, they are not. I've got so many family members who are living well under the poverty level. Why are is this church not interested in helping them? Would this church help a more lower middle-class community that is mostly black before they would help an impoverished lower-class community that is mostly Hispanic? This covenant tells us the answer is "yes". And you are telling me that isn't racist?



    I would say you are a PC liberal, not because you "mingle with black people", but because you have liberal political leanings and you support the covenant of this church. Although, aren't white "churches" with similar covenants usually labeled radical right-wing? Maybe you're liberal left and radical right.



    Nope. I don't catch every thread on the board.



    That's sad. It would seem though that you are painting too broad of a picture of those of us on the BB. You implied earlier that the whole BB had such views. Those who do should be just as ashamed for being racist as the people with this racist church covenant.



    I'm glad you're not ashamed of who your children are. Your husband being black makes this church no less racist. I would be willing to bet that you don't look at your husband as a black man or your children as black/white children. That's why I don't understand how you would be accepting of this church's covenant to only help a certain race of people and to exclude others by calling themselves an "unashamedly black" church. Shouldn't they be looking to help all kinds of people, even if it is just people they are able to help in the surrounding communities who also happen to be black. I would rather they help only blacks out of happenstance rather than in covenant to only help that group. That may be a subtle difference on one hand, but it's the difference between being overtly racist and helping one's surrounding community, no matter who may live there. If the church is, by their own admission, slogan, and covenant, a "black" church, that automatically excludes non-blacks from that church. It's hard to be non-black in an "unashamedly black" church. That would be like trying to be gay in Fred Phelps' church. It just ain't happening.

    I did. I was thinking at the time that you did view your children as black because that is what you said. I would hope, and I think you do, view your children as your children and not be the color, whatever shade it may be, of their skin.

    On a side note, I had a very near and dear friend in highschool, whom I've lost touch with over the years, who had a black dad and white mom. He had two siblings the same way. We would have sleepovers at one anothers' houses and he went to church with me several times. I am not telling you this to proclaim that I also "mingled with black". My point is, I didn't think about his skin color (and his skin was dark...you wouldn't have known his mom was white to look at him) when we were having fun or going places or spending the night together. I (gasp) even shared my bed with him when he'd come over for the weekend. He was my friend because of the way he treated me. Why can't people, black and white and all the colors in between, get over the shade of someone's skin and just help people when they need help?

    I would hate to think that my church would only help white people and communities in need.

    To deny that this covenant is racist is being either unwilling to admit the obvious, or genuinely confused about the meaning of racism.
     
  16. Bro. James Reed

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    Who said it wasn't?

    If such is the case, then the community ought to have a covenant to help this church, rather than the other way around.

    The way this covenant is, the black community is a big part of the church, not the other way around.

    I think you are getting your facts about "popular beliefs" and people of your same race from sometime in the 1960s.

    Do you "mingle with" white people?
     
  17. Bro. James Reed

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    btw, I'm glad we talked about this. I'll have to call my old friend up and re-touch with him. I hadn't thought about him in a long while before tonight.
     
  18. The Galatian

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    What's really wrong here? I think it's the fact that black communities have discovered that they can pull themselves up the same way Irish or German, or Italian communities did. When faced with racism and lack of opportunity, they found ways to organize themselves, to rely on being German or Irish or Italian, and thereby succeed by hard work and pride in who they were. Particularly galling to the racists was the Irish assertion that they were as good as anyone else, maybe better.
    http://www.kinsella.org/history/histira.htm

    It riles some people when blacks do this, for reasons that are sometimes clear, and sometimes not so clear, but never very pleasant to consider.
     
  19. rbell

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    This post seems a bit over the top to me..."Mingle with blacks..." sounds like a perjorative to me.

    Accusing someone of voting for an individual based solely on skin color here is a baseless charge, and is simply being provocative, IMO.

    Maybe one of those lock thingys on this thread would be nice.
     
  20. hillclimber1

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    But this fits the general tone of the comments by Fp. He does seem to take pleasure in our perception of his subjection and association with blacks.
     
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