17th century Word Changes

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Phillip, Oct 9, 2004.

  1. Phillip

    Phillip
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    Someone here once posted a great list of words that sound very common, but do not mean anything close to the same as they did in the 17th century.

    If you read this, could you repost a list of these words?

    I believe it was either Dr. Bob or possibly Ed (or both).
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    "Fetch a compass"

    Didn't mean grab a navigation device ;) .
     
  3. Phillip

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    Perfect example, C4K.

    One person on this board once said their six year old can read and understand the KJV with the help of a dictionary for the HARD words.

    Now my question would be; What would an six year old's interpretation of "Fetch a compass" be? Even with a dictionary!
     
  4. russell55

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    Peculiar is one of my favorite examples of a word used in the KJV that has changed meaning since then. The word peculiar used in relation to God's people didn't mean "odd" or "strange" or "eccentric", but that they were "owned" people.

    I had a young man once use the phrase "peculiar people" as evidence to me that if you couldn't pick out the Christians in a crowd of people from 100 yards, then those Christians weren't being "peculiar" enough in their dress.

    This just means that when we use the KJV, we need to be careful to understand what the particular word choices meant at the time they were chosen, and filter our interpretation of the text through that lense.
     
  5. Phillip

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    Great point. Russell55, Let's compile a list of these words or phrases.

    C4K, I'll let you explain "Fetch a Compass". I remember the phrase, but honestly don't remember where and what it meant.
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    1. flagon [n.] = container for drink
    (AV=raisin cake/muffin)

    2. confection [n.] = sugar
    (AV=perfume)

    3. target [n.] = focus
    (AV=shield)

    4. bruit [n.] = mean person
    (AV=rumor)

    5. leasing [v.] = rental agreement
    (AV=lying)

    6. tutor [n.] = educator
    (AV=legal guardian)

    7. mean [adj.] = evil, hard
    (AV=commonplace)

    8. settle [n.] = homestead land
    (AV=ledge)

    9. pulse [n.] = blood flow
    (AV=legumes)

    10. strait [n.] = oceanic channel
    (AV=narrow)

    11. booties [n.] = baby footwear
    (AV=rewards)

    12. let [v.] = allow
    (AV=hinder)

    Now the AV definitions ARE in many dictionaries and valid (because they were used in the AV; circular thinking). But they are not the COMMONLY UNDERSTOOD DEFINITION to 99.99% of people reading.

    Man, I had to look up "settle". Never heard of that definition. But I'm not well educated . .
     
  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    "Fetch a compass" means to take a circular route. The phrase also appears in unabdriged copies of Robinson Crusoe.

    Act 28:13 And from thence we fetched a compass, and came to Rhegium: and after one day the south wind blew, and we came the next day to Puteoli:

    [ October 10, 2004, 01:52 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]
     
  8. HankD

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    1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

    Philemon 1:20 ... refresh my bowels in the Lord.

    1 Chronicles 26
    16 To Shuppim and Hosah the lot came forth westward, with the gate Shallecheth, by the causeway of the going up, ward against ward.
    17 Eastward were six Levites, northward four a day, southward four a day, and toward Asuppim two and two.
    18 At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, and two at Parbar.


    HankD
     
  9. Ransom

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    17 Eastward were six Levites, northward four a day, southward four a day, and toward Asuppim two and two.
    18 At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, and two at Parbar.


    The KJV is more readable than the modern versions.

    Yep.

    Mmm-hmm.

    Fer sure.

    Maybe if you speak Parbarian, but personally I don't.
     
  10. Terry_Herrington

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    1 Chr 26:13-18
    13 And they cast lots, as well the small as the great, according to the house of their fathers, for every gate.
    14 And the lot eastward fell to Shelemiah. Then for Zechariah his son, a wise counseller, they cast lots; and his lot came out northward.
    15 To Obededom southward; and to his sons the house of Asuppim.
    16 To Shuppim and Hosah the lot came forth westward, with the gate Shallecheth, by the causeway of the going up, ward against ward.
    17 Eastward were six Levites, northward four a day, southward four a day, and toward Asuppim two and two.
    18 At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, and two at Parbar.
    (KJV)

    When you read it in context, it is easy to understand what is being said.
     
  11. Terry_Herrington

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    BTW, both the NKJV and the NAS both refer to Parbar in this verse, so in this instance they are just as obscure as is the KJV.
     
  12. David J

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    1 Chron. 26:13-18
    Lots were cast for each gate, according to their families, young and old alike.
    [14] The lot for the East Gate fell to Shelemiah. Then lots were cast for his son Zechariah, a wise counselor, and the lot for the North Gate fell to him. [15] The lot for the South Gate fell to Obed-Edom, and the lot for the storehouse fell to his sons. [16] The lots for the West Gate and the Shalleketh Gate on the upper road fell to Shuppim and Hosah.
    Guard was alongside of guard: [17] There were six Levites a day on the east, four a day on the north, four a day on the south and two at a time at the storehouse. [18] As for the court to the west, there were four at the road and two at the court itself.

    NIV
     
  13. David J

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    1 Chron. 26:13-18

    13 They cast lots, the small and the great alike, according to their fathers’ households, for every gate. 14 The lot to the east fell to Shelemiah. Then they cast lots for his son Zechariah, a counselor with insight, and his lot came out to the north. 15 For Obed-edom it fell to the south, and to his sons went the storehouse. 16 For Shuppim and Hosah it was to the west, by the gate of Shallecheth, on the ascending highway. Guard corresponded to guard. 17 On the east there were six Levites, on the north four daily, on the south four daily, and at the storehouse two by two. 18 At the *Parbar on the west there were four at the highway and two at the *Parbar. 19These were the divisions of the gatekeepers of the sons of Korah and of the sons of Merari.

    NASB(1995)

    *Possibly court or colonnade
     
  14. David J

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    1 Chron. 26:13-18
    And they cast lots for each gate, the small as well as the great, according to their father's house. [14] The lot for the East Gate fell to Shelemiah. Then they cast lots for his son Zechariah, a wise counselor, and his lot came out for the North Gate; [15] to Obed-Edom the South Gate, and to his sons the storehouse. [16] To Shuppim and Hosah the lot came out for the West Gate, with the Shallecheth Gate on the ascending highway--watchman opposite watchman. [17] On the east were six Levites, on the north four each day, on the south four each day, and for the storehouse two by two. [18] As for the Parbar on the west, there were four on the highway and two at the Parbar.


    NKJV

    NKJV
    *Probably a court or colonnade extending west of the temple
     
  15. David J

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    Your point is Terry?
     
  16. Phillip

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    Nobody says the NKJV is the absolute best rendering in certain places. The bottom line is that they are all translations, translated by MAN. God only promised to maintain His Word for all Generations and only the originals were "God breathed."
     
  17. Phillip

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    Why does every thread have to turn into a KJVO debate? I simply wanted words that were hard to understand in the KJV.
     
  18. Terry_Herrington

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    Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

    Although I would not say that the KJV is "God-breathed" in the same way that the originals were, I do believe that God especially blessed the KJV translators work. I also believe that the KJV is the best English translation available.

    I see no reason to change to any other translation, in fact I don't trust any MV over what the KJV says.

    The KJV is the "God-blessed" English translation and it is good enough for me!
     
  19. Phillip

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    Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

    Although I would not say that the KJV is "God-breathed" in the same way that the originals were, I do believe that God especially blessed the KJV translators work. I also believe that the KJV is the best English translation available.

    I see no reason to change to any other translation, in fact I don't trust any MV over what the KJV says.

    The KJV is the "God-blessed" English translation and it is good enough for me!
    </font>[/QUOTE]To a point, I honestly don't have a problem with what you are saying here. At times you seem to be KJV preferred, or at least not the level of KJVO that believes in inspiration of the translators.

    I don't think there is any doubt that God can aid a translator in their work. It would be obvious that He would be capable of this.

    I have no problem with you using the KJV as your Bible. It is a great translation, no doubt about that. I too have problems with various translations, but to me there are issues with the KJV that I have too. Including the fact that its readability is becoming more difficult every day. Did you personally grow up with the KJV? Or were you introduced to the Bible at a later time in life? I grew up with it and I think that helps in understanding it. Also, I have no doubt that many people have been blessed by the KJV and God uses it. But, I also believe God can use the NKJV just as well. I guess we can agree to disagree on this issue.

    Let me ask you another question. Do you believe that someone can be saved using an MV?
     
  20. Terry_Herrington

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    Certainly a person can be saved using another version of the Bible. In fact, one does not even have to have a Bible at all to hear and understand the Gospel and be saved.

    I was saved at a KJVO church and used it exclusively for many years. Later I concluded that the MVs are acceptable. Recently, I have returned to my "first love" and this includes using the KJV, along with other things. In fact, I now attend the church I was saved at back in 1969, and I am certain that God has led me in this direction.
     

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