2 Chronicles 7:14

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Jkdbuck76, Jun 28, 2015.

  1. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,263
    Likes Received:
    64
    King James Bible

    If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
    =============

    So this quote was on a kjv bible page on FB Friday after SOTUS announced their second dereliction of duty of the week.

    Many people were saying that this passage applies to America and that if we pray, God will bless us in a material way.

    Well, me being me, I couldn't let that stand. I told them all that if they cared to read the context of this passage, they would note that this was part of a promise that God made to Solomon and the Nation Israel after the dedication of the first temple that when they fell into idolatry, were carried away, and later repent, He would return them to their homeland, bless them and make their country productive. I also told them that all of the Bible if FOR us, but not all of the Bible is TO us, and as such, God is not obligated to bless America, seeing as how 1) it was a specific promise made to a specific people and 2) as Christians, we do not have an Earthly country.

    I then said that as Christians, we OUGHT to be praying for our leaders in government and for believer as there are numerous NT commands for us to do so.

    Well, as you might have guessed, I took a beating over my comments. Many told me that ALL of the Bible is for ALL Christians everywhere and that the promise in the passage therefore applied to Christians in America. To be sure, I believe that there is an application for us since all Scripture is God-breathed and the former things were written to us as examples. But the angry folks on the kjv bible fb page were on me like moles on Grandma.

    So why is that? Is it patriotism that says "God loves America more and WE are the center of prophecy"? Or is it that people think the Bible is a book of promises of wealth...just name it and claim it? Are American Christians so dull that they'd rather cherrypick verses and to heck with the context? Or are most folks ignorant of their Bible and no longer care? Sound off, please.


    Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk
     
  2. Berean

    Berean
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    1
    This is one of the most misapplied scriptures in the Bible in my opinion; This applies to Israel, and America is not going to turn back according what I have read.
     
  3. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,348
    Likes Received:
    14
    I have learned, with few exceptions, you cannot have an intelligent discussion with a KJVonly person. Tradition and legalism are hurdles they can't jump.
     
  4. agedman

    agedman
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    4,258
    Likes Received:
    186
    Just wishful thinking on the part of most unknowing folks. The typical American wouldn't be able to distinguish between the words of the constitution and those of the Scriptures.


    Of course they do! From the time of Eden, humankind have hid themselves from the truth. They by nature do not welcome the light of Scriptures in context. People are not interested in either historical truth or Scriptural truth. They see history in the light of what they choose to "believe) or have "experienced" through bias presentations, and the same with the preaching - biased and slanted with all sorts of ungodly agenda.

    I am finding that most don't know enough Scriptures to even be able to "cherry pick" but must rely upon "I think..." statements and then present what they "think" would sound reasonably correct. Often it seems that the "I think" statements are not even recognized as anti-Christ, and when pointed out that the statements are unScriptural the folk become hostile.

    Yep - on both.
     
  5. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    Lots of threads focus on the faults of others, rather than on how we can better serve Christ.

    Does "my people" refer to blood descendants of Abraham, or believers of every blood line? Every blood line! So this promise would seem to apply to believers in America, as well as believers in China or Iraq.

    Now what does "heal their land" mean in this context? Is it the area of earth we live in, or the "land" into which we were spiritually born?

    One of my favorite songs, from my Sunday school days 60 years ago is Trust and Obey. The line that I embraced is, Trust and Obey, for there is no other way to be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey. 2 Chronicles 7:14
     
    #5 Van, Jun 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2015
  6. Zaac

    Zaac
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    220
    I think an important facet of Scripture that many miss is that there are universal principles that undergird the words on the page.

    Yes the Scripture was written to Israel. But the PRINCIPLE is applicable to Christians no matter where they are.

    If the principles don't apply, then there was no need to give us the Scripture.

    So yes God will heal the United States just as HE would heal Israel if His people humbled themselves and...:thumbsup:
     
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,320
    Likes Received:
    786
    On this we agree. :thumbs:
     
  8. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,263
    Likes Received:
    64
    I agree.

    I mostly agree.

    How will He heal our land? We were not carried away into captivity. Nor did God give the American nation to the Christians....in other words, this country is not a promised homeland for Christians is it? Where does He say He will bless any and all countries that pray to Him? ZAAC, please help me out with your thinking.

    Surely, we ought to pray and ask for God's forgiveness daily and pray for our country. However, I do not see where God is obligated to bless our country physically.
     
  9. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,263
    Likes Received:
    64
    Relevance?

    How can we be sure of this? How can we know that God will heal our land? He's talking directly to Solomon about a series of events that were going to happen to Israel in this passage. I believe there IS an application for Christians here, but I'm saying that it probably doesn't involve physically blessing the USA.

    I guess I need to re-read Chronicles. God DID keep His promise to return the captives. The Temple was rebuilt. The sacrificial system restored. Again, I am struggling with how this applies to new covenant Gentile believers other than to say that 'God demands repentance'. I don't look for God to fill my pockets as some do. I don't believe He is obligated to bless us like He did Israel since America is not Israel. Just giving His Son to purchase our redemption is enough.

    Agreed. A nice hymn. It has helped me thru many a dark day.

    I appreciate your responses, Van. If you have time, please connect a few of your dots for me.
     
  10. Zaac

    Zaac
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    220
    I believe that the principle applies to whatever land the Christians are in. The power of the Holy Spirit works through us to affect whatever land we are in. The fact that there have been so many Christians here historically has allowed this country to be extremely blessed of God.

    But the more we, the ones who are supposed to be following Christ, continue to UNREPENTANTLY live our lives, the less the Holy Spirit will work through us and a sickness comes over the land.

    The more GOD'S PEOPLE move away from Him, the sicker their land will appear.

    And what's taking place in the United STates right now is consistent with sinful Christians being unrepentant. And the more we refuse to humble ourselves and repent, or even acknowledge that we need to repent, the more we keep seeing the country giving us more of what we don't want.

    And we STILL haven't figured out that this stuff is taking place because of US, not because of Obama or Congress or Democrat or Republican. But because of OUR, CHRISTIANS', unrepentance.
     
  11. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,144
    Likes Received:
    321
    I agree with Zaac and RevM that there is an underlying principle here, the focus being the prayers of His people - will He answer or no.

    The question then is - what are we asking/praying for God to do for His people?


    HankD
     
  12. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,835
    Likes Received:
    115
    You were right to say this. The Bible is about God's revealing of Himself to us - therefore all of the Bible is TO us. Because the Bible is about God and His plan, not all of the Bible is FOR us.

    For example, I LOVE Leviticus 14. But it is not FOR me. I've never had leprosy and even if I had, this ceremony would not be applicable to me. Then why do I love it? I love it because it reveals Christ to me. I can see the death, burial, and resurrection in Leviticus 14 and the nature of God's Son is revealed.

    We can learn a lot from 2 Chronicles 7 - in fact, Christians should be well versed in the Old Testament in it's entirety. But reading the chapter as a whole shows that this is not speaking to a secular nation, but the nation of Israel and the Temple in particular. And the "healing" of the land is not a spiritual one, but a literal one. A healing from drought, locust, and pestilence.

    Should we pray, humble ourselves, and seek God's face? Yes. But not to make America "great".
     
    #12 Scarlett O., Jun 28, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
  13. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,263
    Likes Received:
    64
    A funny thought occurred to me!

    =====
    2 Timothy 4:13
    When you come, bring the cloak that I left with Carpus at Troas, also the books, and above all the parchments.
    =====

    As believers, we'd better have coats and office supplies ready!

    Edit: Zaac, thanks for expounding your thoughts.
    Ditto, O.
     
    #13 Jkdbuck76, Jun 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2015
  14. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,263
    Likes Received:
    64
    So in your estimation, Kjvo sites and pages are like flypaper for the unreasonable?
     

Share This Page

Loading...