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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jarthur001, Dec 15, 2010.
The real meaning....
Is it...."God's greatest desire is to save all of mankind?"
It could also comfortably fit in the Calvinist understanding that God will not end everything until all who are elect are saved.
Is it not wonderful how God even now denies himself for the salvation of men? Why does not our Lord come at once in his glory? Why do we not see the millennial reign begin? It is because of the long-suffering of God: he waits and puts off the closing scene, because he is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." He keeps back even the glorious advent to give men space for salvation. —Charles Spurgeon, 1890.
He is referring to "...usward" or, "toward us", that is, toward His elect. He is longsuffering until the fullness of the Gentiles come in, until all of His elect are saved.
The following verses also prove those that are His, in that, they not just talk a good theology, as is the protocol of today, but practice such, and in accordance with truly looking unto His coming, practice holiness, and godliness, as is also supported throughout the Scriptures. All who truly belong to Him will practice repentance, and come unto this, by His leading.
2 Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
I know the verses given here in context are not popular, but neither is true Christian living popular.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Pet 3:9
Knowing that Peter was an apostle TO THE CIRCUMCISION, and that in all likelihood his intended audience were Jewish Christians, apply the 'Preterist Modifier':
“....although God in His longsuffering, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance, allowed the two covenants to coexist for forty years, a generation, giving the Jews time to repent, but she would not.”
"Consider what was coming upon 'that generation':
upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Mt 23:35,36
God made sure that every Jew on earth was given the chance to 'hearken to that prophet' before the wrath came. All the Jews of that generation on earth heard the gospel, and were given the chance to repent and avoid the wrath and the curses of the OT that were to come on the nation of Israel. Therein lies the fulfillment of 'the great commission' as many call it.
Many futurists, especially those of the pre-mil persuasion, totally miss the magnitude of the significance of the events of 'that generation', and woefully misapply passages to the covenant of grace that pertain only to 'that generation'."
It's quite a humbling thought. I had asked on a secular board the "God Question" because that was my husband's sermon series this month. "If you could ask God anything and be guaranteed an answer, what would it be?" There then was the discussion of suffering and sin and someone asked "Why doesn't God just stop it all now??" and I explained this very thought to her. If God were to stop it all now, there would be SO many who could not be saved but instead, in His mercy, He is waiting until the right time.
Put me down for....Yes , his desire is that none should perish.
Same here. In context it is speaking to the Jews, but they are included in "everyone". I recall Christ saying something similar while lamenting over Jerusalem.
To think this is talking of the "elect" only doesn't make sense. The "elect" cannot perish, and to state God is "patient" towards them when He determines every and all actions of the "elect" makes no sense in the calvinist's model.
Are any of the saved not elect?
Sure it does. While someone may be one of the "elect", it doesn't mean that he possesses salvation at this time. It may come later - and God is waiting for that "later".
No. On the contrary, can any of the "elect" perish? Why would "...not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance" even need to be stated if this is speaking of the elect? Is there an alternate possible outcome for them besides salvation?
This would be like telling my son he needs to cut the grass, but I first need to unlock the shed and fill up the mower with gas...and then telling him I'm being patient with HIM in not cutting the grass knowing full well I'M the one I'm waiting on.
Who is God waiting on...Himself? I thought He first had to give life, give repentance, and give faith Why state He is patient with US then?
One more time, are any of the saved not elect? It's real simple.
Please read post 11...it's real simple
I heard a lot of opinion on this, instead of agreeing with the scripture.
It is amazing how Peter said people will misunderstand Paul's teaching to their own destruction, I don't know how they can do that if they are already going that way any ways.
Paul tells us that we should make peace with everyone, why because God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth and later say's he is not lying, because people back then didn't believe him either.
Not really, you confuse it, but you being a fellow Clevelander and all, I'll pass on it.
All of the saved are elect. That's a plain fact.
Hope we can be cool or remain cool about it. We all have different angles on it.
It's all good. I was on your side of the fence at one time, there's still hope for you
Can you tell me what I confused? Is it possible for someone who is not of the "elect" to perish, and if not, why would Peter have to state it?
We have the command to preach to the elect, do we not?
These things written are the comfort of the scriptures, for the elect.
I'm not goint to become overly thematic about Reformned Theology. I do however, agree with a lot of it.
I've been to churches where they quote A W Pink more than Jesus. I have a little problem with that.
Come to your side? Were you breathin' fumes from Lake Erie rivers burning?
Simply God isn't willing. It's man who places limits on who God can save.