#2 Second Coming of Messiah Yeshua

Not Really ED!

I have posted the following before but apparently you did not read it!

Martyn Lloyd-Jones in his book, The Church and Last Things, asserts that Darby was influenced by Edward Irving, a charismatic Scottish preacher, who established a new church in London called the Catholic Apostolic Church. As reported by Lloyd-Jones [page 138] the origin of ‘the secret rapture’ is the result of a prophetic utterance in the Catholic Apostolic Church. This utterance was supposedly in tongues, interpreted by someone and considered “a revelation”. There is much dispute as to whether the so-called revelation occured in Irving’s church or elsewhere and was then discovered by Irving. The origin of this ‘revelation’ has been attributed to Margaret Macdonald of Port Glasgow, Scotland. Her revelation was first published in Robert Norton's Memoirs of James & George Macdonald, of Port Glasgow (1840), pp. 171-176. Norton published it again in The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets; In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861), pp. 15-18. Whether all of this is historical truth is obviously subject to debate. However, it is apparently historical fact that there was a split within the Plymouth Brethern as the result of Darby’s acceptance of the two event Second Coming and the ‘parenthesis church’.

 

I don't know what your point is!:smilewinkgrin:

 

Wheww. I thought it was just me. :laugh:

 

More About Margaret Macdonald

Ed Edwards may not know that Tyndale Seminary, which Mal Couch headed, was fined more than $100,000 for illegally issuing degrees. (Google "America's Pretrib Rapture Traffickers" for World Net Daily's proof of this.) When Thomas Ice flaunts Tyndale's unaccredited "Dr." before his name, he's just as dishonest as someone who isn't authorized to print US paper money but does so anyway. (And Scofield began putting an unauthorized "Dr." before his name in the 1890's.) This is the Ice who's been maliciously spreading the lies that MacPherson has been fabricating a false history of pretrib since 1970 and that MacPherson has written only one book and keeps re-issuing it under different titles - lies being repeated by Strandberg, Reagan and other desperados while they watch the "handwriting on the wall" signaling, with the help of scary world events, the demise of their 179-year-old, money-making-but-increasingly-breaking, British-invented theory! But who on earth can believe that many evangelical leaders would endorse a "false" history of pretrib (Google "Scholars Weigh My Research"), or that all of MacPherson's various publishers would be totally ignorant of his previously published works? What we're really witnessing is Ice's great embarrassment over MacPherson's discovery that Ice, when reproducing Macdonald's short revelation account, somehow left out 48 words (which changed the meaning!) - the same 48 words that LaHaye left out when he reproduced it three years later! Ed Edwards should know that the world is filled with misguided persons who view themselves as great researchers and writers - and who will continue to do so until the the earth mercifully ends their "career" with a tornado or earthquake or cancer or something else. Since the Lord has always allowed people to be warned ahead of time when disasters like Noah's flood and Sodom and Gomorrah were to happen, it wouldn't be like Him to not let folks be warned about a future great tribulation. Since the Lord has also said that judgment will begin FIRST "at the house of God," do any of us think He will overlook those on message boards who seemingly argue for the sake of arguing or those who will have to learn some things the hard, screaming way? Thinkers, anyone?

 

OldRegular, you keep putting this up and bolding the section I have so done above as though it is some kind of hirstorical fact. Oh, yes you do put a disclaimer at the bottom but you never seem to hightlight that part now do you. So I did for you and made it a little large too.

Here are some interestiong citation (taken from the Biblicist website)

And here are some people who held a pre-trib BEFORE 1830.

 

Funny, Ice points out their poor scholarly work and now this brother is Christ called a liar. Macpherson did an ABSOLUTELY poor job in his research and conspiracy theory regarding the pre-trib view - which makes his work actaully more fictional than anything.

But you can believe who or what you want but I personally would be careful called or equating a fellow brother in Christ with Satan and His works. God just might have something to say about that 'against' you.

 

Oops.. left off the names, here they are some of those who held and proclaimed a pre-trib view BEFORE 1830 (other than John Darby)

Joseph Mede (1586-1638); Edward Bickersteth (1786-1850); James H. Frere (1779-1866); William Cuninghame (1775-1849); amoung various others.

 

Having arrived at the same conclusion, for the same reason, I'm inclined to believe Darby.

I've never read anything Darby wrote, but having been there, it's easy to recognize others that have "traveled the same route" by their description of the route.

 

So what is your point?

Darby or Margaret MacDonald, which ever is correct, are not alone. The 19th century was a hotbed of new revelation.

Jehovah's Witnesses

Mormons

Seventh Day Adventists

Christian Science

 

Have you ever know Satan not to "mimic" God,

Why shouldn't Satan have his people come up with new revelations at the same time God was beginning to open the seal on Daniel's book???

 

Just what seal are you talking about? Daniel's book is not sealed in my Bible.

 

The groups above have nothing to do with the pre-trib rapture. And just because the groups above started in the 19th century does not mean all ideas in the 19th century were wrong. Logical fallacy here.

 

Is it logical that God would leave those for whom Jesus Christ died ignorant of the nature of His bride, the Church, for 1800 years? I think not. But that is what dispensationalism teaches.

 

Dispensationalism doesn't teach that. That's what anti-Dispensationalism people say it teaches.

 

Da 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

 

Dispensationalism did not appear on the scene until ~1830. Their view of the Church is different than the orthodox view of the Church. That orthodox view is basically the same as that endorsed by the Southern Baptist Convention in Atlanta, Georgia on June 14, 2000 is as follows [Section VI]:

“The New Testament also speaks of the church as the Body of Christ which includes all the redeemed of all ages, believers from every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.”

 

This has reference to only one revelation to Daniel [Daniel 12:5-8].