2 Tim 2:15

400 years of Bible history has relied heavily on the KJB.

Can you show us where a complete rendering of the word "study" doesn't require diligence? Even an incomplete rendering of study reveals at least some level of diligence.:sleeping_2:

 

Foul!

"Amor" is most often understood to have sexual connotations. Go look it up!

 

Um, I believe it is the reference "RVR" he is saying is wrong, not that the RVG is worng.:wavey:

 

You misunderstood me. The RVR is based on the same textual family as the KJV. So why would he have a problem with its rendering of this verse. The only conclusion I can come to is he feels the KJV is superior to all versions including those in foreign languages.

 

No that is wrong. Do you even know Spanish? I live in a country were we speak it every day and I can tell you that amor is not normally understood to have sexual connotations.

When we preach of the love of God we speak of el amor de Dios. Its not a filthy word as you would imply.

 

Calvin George? Go to the link: http://www.biblefortoday.org/idx_foreign_bibles.htm

 

I think we agree that context is important to our understanding of verse 15.
It goes back to verse 7: "Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things."

Any notion that contemporary speech limits the meaning of "study" primarily to written material would be incorrect. "Study" in contempary English usage (and 1611 usage) relates primarily to "thought" rather than to any particular medium.

 

Your link claims that the Gomez is accepted by churches in Argentina. I am in Argentina and I do not know of any IFB church plant that uses the Gomez. There may be one, but the vast majority do not. They use the trusted RVR 1960.

Again I don´t agree with what Calvin George says. But he is a legitimate voice of concern.

 

You are telling someone who lives in South America and speaks/reads fluent Spanish that he doesn't know what Spanish words mean. :laugh:

You crack me up.

 

Yes, AF, we do agree that the context is important. I very much appreciate your contributions. I would sincerely enjoy more interaction with you.

I also concur that contemporary speech doesn't technically limit the meaning of "study" to written material, but my experience has been that many readers have concluded that "study" essential means 'reading plus contemplation' (in this case, of the Bible). I'm very certain that the uncritical public today does not apply 'studious thought' to past spoken conversations (unless captured on tape or in transcript), and rarely to virtuous behavior.

If my position was not already clear, I think the KJV rendering "study" was and is perfectly legitimate here. My interpretation of "study" here has less to do with introspective 'thinking' and more to do with ministry in 'deed'.

 

We cannot know with certainty which definition the AV men had in mind when they choose "study". I don't think the king's revisors meant #2, but I do think that most contemporary readers think of "study" in terms of the applying of the mind "to books". We do know that definitions of the Greek word do not explicitly include 'studious thought' --

In fact, spoudazo basically means to 'make haste' and from that comes the meanings of zeal and diligence. It seems to be used in papyri in such senses as 'do your best', 'take care', 'hurry on the doing of something'. This word conveys the idea of exertion. It means to be conscientious, zealous and earnest in discharging of one's duty or obligation (in this case, Timothy's pastoral ministry).

Evidently, Ken Wuest wrote in his Word Studies from the Greek New Testament: Studies in the Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament --

... to make haste, do one’s best, take care, desire. The idea of making haste, being eager, giving diligence, and putting forth effort are in the word. The word speaks of intense effort and determination. ​

This verb speaks of intensity of purpose followed by intensity of effort toward the realization of that purpose. In other words, spoudazo does not stop with affecting one's state of mind, but also affects one's activity.

 

As a former missionary to Mexico and one that still speaks Spanish in my ministry on a daily basis, I concur. That is typical KJVO extremism applied to a language most KJVO have no knowledge of.

 

Re: Calvin George

I have never had the pleasure of meeting Bro. George but I stand with him on the issue of Spanish Bible Versions. I disagree with him in his stand on the KJV, however.

 

Re: Keith Gomez

I do not know of ONE church in Mexico that uses the Gomez version. His boasts of 'wide acceptance' fall mighty short.

 

Because the KJVOs are constantly looking for something...ANYTHING...to attempt to rescue their doctrine from absurdity, to give themselves reasons for going on believing it.

In the KJV, we see the word 'study' three times, twice in the New Testament. its first appearance in the NT is in 1 Thess. 4:11; "that ye STUDY to be quiet". Clearly, the meaning here is 'strive', as the Greek here, "philotimeomai", means 'to strive, make it one's ambition'. Given the English definition of "spoudazo", we must conclude 'study' also means "strive", etc. in 2 Tim. 2:15.

Newer versions read "make it your ambition" or "aspire" in 1 Thess.4:11, but we don't see the KJVOs complaining about THAT one! Just goesta show the KJVOs are consistently inconsistent.

As I said, the whole 2 Tim. 2:15 thingie is just another meaningless KJVO sideshow.

 

Ditto. I agree. I have never met him as well, but I have met his father who has been a missionary here in Argentina for a long time.

¡Dios te bendiga!

 

You might like others to believe that tripe, but not here.

We do know that study requires diligence to be effective.

We know that only a basic understanding of any passage of Scripture leaves one wanting for more, thus study requires diligence.

Yep, sounds just like study to me!

 

Gee, did you miss something?

 

Sorry, I just went by the Spanish to English dictionary, and I supose the song "That's Amore'" is also wrong?

 

No problem.

Amore is Italian if I am not mistaken. I can´t answer that since I don´t really know Italian.