#2: Why so much against KJB-only?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Ed Edwards, Feb 26, 2004.

  1. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Blessings in the name of the Lord!

    Michelle page 8, 24 Feb 2004, 2:23PM EST:

    "When I refer to modern versions,
    I am refering to those translations
    of the Westcott and Hort greek texts ... "

    So I take that as a definition of "modern versions".
    Here is a statement about those MVs:

    Michelle: 24 Feb 2004, 10:54AM EST:

    "Reminder that the modern versions ALL have
    the same underlying text of Nestles (Westott
    and hort's greek New Testament) ... "

    Substuting the definition instead of the term
    in the statement gives us this:

    Reminder that those translations
    of the Westcott and Hort greek texts
    ALL have
    the same underlying text of Nestles (Westott
    and hort's greek New Testament)

    Yes, this statement indeed is true! For it
    is an example of the general statement:

    A set is equal to itself.

    Remember: This attack is NOT on the
    KJVs (King James Versions) but on the
    error of KJBO-ism (King James Bible ONly)-ism.
     
  2. michelle

    michelle
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2003
    Messages:
    3,217
    Likes Received:
    0
    Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior!

    Sorry Ed, but I do not see your point regarding this.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Ed, I'm trying to think of an English translation today based on the Wescott/Hort text and am at a loss?

    None are. Another straw man and circular reasoning.
     
  4. skanwmatos

    skanwmatos
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,314
    Likes Received:
    0
    English Revised Version. American Standard Version.
     
  5. Anti-Alexandrian

    Anti-Alexandrian
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    0
    The JW's "bible" comes from the W&H Greek Text(Matt 7:20).Find a JW "bible" and look and see...Arian doctrine and all...


    Hardly.
     
  6. Jim Ward

    Jim Ward
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    0
    The WTBTS proudly admits that the Westcott and Hort Greek text is the basis for their New Testament.

    Quoting from page 5 of their Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures:

    "In the broad left-hand colum of the pages will be found the Greek text edited by B.F. Westcott and F.J.A. Hort, and published in 1881.

    There are other quotes to this effect that I have from them, I just need to dig them up.


    Jim
     
  7. BrianT

    BrianT
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    The JWs did a incredibly poor job of translating. Actually, their Interlinear proves that, and I think they stopped producing it because of that reason.

    It is not the fault of the W/H text that a cult misused it, just as it is not the fault of the KJV that the same cult misused that too. Just because some people drink and drive doesn't mean car manufacturers are evil.
     
  8. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    May God's blessings come back unto you double what
    you blessed upon us.

    Thank you for
    confirming my point with your question.

    Statement #1:
    Your statement was true but meaningless.

    Statement #2:
    The sentence you wrote was correct
    but insignificant.

    My last two sentences have the same
    meaning. Note that the words are
    quite different.

    I believe that ALL English Translations
    of the Bible individually and collectively
    represent the written word of God
    in English preserved by the Divine providence
    of God for the Enlish users
    of the 21st Century. Amen.

    May blessings come back unto you triple what
    you blessed upon me.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually in our present USofA
    there is a litigious mood and we sue
    car manufacturers for that.

    Who we really aught to sue is
    people who have yet to notice that
    the TR is not just one version of
    the Bible but several versions of the
    Bible. :(
     
  10. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Cdg: "I am KJB-only. I claim to be a Fundamentalist.
    I am wondering why those who are anti-KJB-only and
    pro-any version care so much about the Bible I use."

    I see the beauty of God's Holy Inerrant, perfect,
    preserved for the 21st Century in a mulitiude
    of King James Versions (KJVs) and Modern Versions (MVs)
    as well. I claim to be a Fundamentalist also.
    No definition of "Fundamentalist" i ever saw prior
    to 1976 contained the KJB-only as a fundamental
    of the Christian faith. Therefore i believe that
    the KJB-only Doctrine is NOT a Fundamental
    and those who hold to it are not Fundamentalist either,
    for they go beyond the Fundamentals (though I must
    admit that they stray a different direction than:

    1. Universalsits who teach all will be saved
    (only those who believe will be saved)
    2. You must be baptized to be saved
    (99.98% of saved Christians are baptized, but it isn't
    an ironclad requirement)
    3. You must speak in tongues as a sign of being
    filled with the Holy Spirit (The Holy Spirit filling
    a person can give them any gift of the Spirit
    that that He wishes.)
    4. lots of Etc.s but i need to go to bed and
    get a nights sleep so i can work tomorrow.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. michelle

    michelle
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2003
    Messages:
    3,217
    Likes Received:
    0
    Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

    Ed,

    Thank you for explaining your first post to me, and I also appreciate your kindness. I agree with what you say, however, I also must still disagree with your conclusion, based on the overall additions/deletions and translation methods being used for the modern versions. I also disagree because I do not dismiss the fact that Satan can corrupt God's word, and has and continues to do so. This is something that is not taken into consideration by the mv camp, and it is futile for them. I also disagree with your view, because God is not the author of confusion, and this is all we see with the mv's. I also disagree with you, because I believe that God has the power to preserve EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD, as he promised he would do, and that to which is our very lives - physical and spiritual depend upon. I agree, that many different words have the same meaning, and I do not see a problem with that, UNLESS, it weakens or distorts the intended meaning, such as the words debated on here previously. These may not seem serious on the surface, but they are very serious to the regular common person, who has put their trust upon the rant that these modern versions claim : they are for the benefit of easier reading, and better understanding for the english speaking people of today. I find the opposite of that.

    Matthew 12

    25 Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
    26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand?
    27 And if I by beezlebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
    28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
    29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
    30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
    31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
    32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

    33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
    34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
    35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
    36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgement.
    37 For by words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

    Matthew 11: 25

    25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
    26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
    27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

    May the Lord continue to richly bless you all!

    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  12. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Michelle: " ... I do not dismiss the fact that Satan
    can corrupt God's word, and
    has and continues to do so."

    IMHO your assumption is invalid.
    I assume that Satan cannot corrupt either:
    1. the living word of God: Messiaha Yeshua,
    2. the written word of God: the Holy Bible.

    One of the features that God uses to preserve His
    Holy Written Word is to maintain a multitude
    of Witnesses. So there is a multitude of KJVs;
    a multitude of English Holy Bibles: the
    "other" MVs.

    Do you agree with Chic comics that the
    KJV1611 edition was contaminated by the
    Head Devil with those translator notes and
    Apocrypha?

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Interesting what people ignore, isn't it?
    Also it is revealing [​IMG]
     
  14. cdg

    cdg
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ah, Ed, you mentioned my name. I almost feel important. By the way, my pastor is 74years old and he has always(since he was saved which was at the age of thirteen) been KJB-only(meaning he has always used and only recommended the KJV). His father before him was a preacher, I never knew him but I believe he was KJV-only also. Kind throws out the idea "none beofre 1976". By the way how did you come out with that figure anyway? How do you know it is true? I just proved you wrong on that. Now, maybe not many big named people were KJV-only before 1976, but how can one make such a blanket statement when one cannot possible know?
     
  15. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    cdg - because people love and use only the KJV DOES NOT MAKE THEM "KJV ONLY". It means only that they love and use the KJV.

    The "only" part comes in when they say that the KJV is the "only" English translation, or that it "only" is inspired (and all others 'perversions') or that its translators were the "only" ones to get it right, etc.

    Big difference. I also know many good preachers who opt to only use the KJV in the pulpit. But far from the "only" sect.
     
  16. cdg

    cdg
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wooh! I saw Dr. Bob post after me and I though I was in trouble.
    Dr. Bob, My pastor would ONLY support the use of the KJV. He only uses it and only supports the use of it. What is the difference? He does not go as far as Ruckman ,and he doesnt hate everyone that disagrees, but he does disagree with anyone using another version as far as I know.(I do hate to be speaking for him as it were.) I havent checked his study but if he has another versionI am sure he would only consider it valuable as a commentary along with Scripture and not as Scripture.
     
  17. robycop3

    robycop3
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    7,573
    Likes Received:
    10
    CDG, your pastor is in error. Not for the use of the KJB, but by his disagreement with any other English version being Scripture. Perhaps you can ask him to jump into these discussions.

    Wanna see him squirm? Ask him to support the KJVO myth with Scripture from the KJV.
     
  18. Anti-Alexandrian

    Anti-Alexandrian
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    0
    And he should quote:

    John 16:13,Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:

    That's Scriptural!!


    1st Corinthians 2:9-10.9.But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
    10.But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.


    That's Bible(KJB).


    1 Corinthians 2:13-14,
    13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
    14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


    That also is Scriptural!!!

    But you reject it....Jeremiah 8:9
     
  19. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    John 16:13 "Howbeit, when hee the spirit of trueth is come, he will guide you into all trueth:"

    I Corinthians 2:9-10 "But as it is written, Eye hath not seene, nor eare heard, neither haue entred into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that loue him. But God hath reuveiled them vnto us by his Spirit . for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deepe things of God."

    That's Bible - AV1611.


    I Corinthians 2:13-14, "Which things also we speake, not in the words which mans wisdome teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth, comparing spiritual things with spirituall. But the naturall man receiueth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishnesse vnto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

    ~~~~~~~~~

    IF you are going to rant foolishly against modern versions and claim reinspiration for the AV1611 FOR GOODNESS SAKE USE THE REAL THING, not the modern revision!

    You're welcome.
     
  20. Precepts

    Precepts
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,890
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wonder what the NasV would read like in Germane type? But then of course it wouldn't say the same thing as the 1995 Nasv? Well, we're certain it wouldn't say exactly the same thing as the AV 1611 KJB in Germane type. But it would still be as misleading and confusing the Truth as it does already ;)
     

Share This Page

Loading...