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2008 Presidential Election

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by PreachingTruth, May 8, 2007.

  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    It is constitutionally wrong to use a military paid for my tax dollars to do anything other than defend the interests of the United States.

    Jesus and His apostles always urged believers to engage in private charity. Nowhere in the New Testament did Jesus or His apostles ever suggest that Christians do their charitable works through the use of taxpayers' money.
     
  2. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Amen. And the Congress should. :thumbs:
     
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I would go all the way back to Grover Cleveland for the last great president, although Ronald Reagan was pretty good - especially in finishing off the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in the Cold War.
     
  4. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    This may be true, but is it biblically wrong? Should we as a powerful military sit idlely by while innocent lives are being slaughtered just because they are not within our borders? Is that what you believe Christ would have us do? Should we have waited until Hitler's armies actually set foot on our soil? From your perspective it sounds like you believe we should have let Hitler go about his business.

    Did they ever suggest that Christians get involved in government at all whether from running for office or supporting candidates?

    God Bless!
     
  5. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    1) We have a secular government. This is not a theocracy. What the federal government can do is enumerated in the U.S. constitution. Again, what you are encouraging is to be accomplished by Christians through private means, not through the heavy hand of government. You have no Biblical warrant for imposing your beliefs on everyone else through government force.

    2) Not at all. Germany declared war on the United States and was an ally of Japan and Italy - who also declared war on the United States. And we declared war back. So if you want to try to get the Congress to declare war on other countries, go ahead.
     
  6. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    We have a secular government in as far as the constitution prohibits the government from establishing any national religion. Other than that the constitution was written on the bases of God's moral values and was written by men who were of the greater majority God fearing Chrtistians. God is written into the constitution so how "secular" is it really?

    If the constitution is "secular", then why does it speak about a Creator?

    "We the People" is our government. Folks tend to talk of the US government as if it is some seperate entity from the common folk. It is not, it is "We the people". Now if "We the People" happen to be Christians running the government at the time then we have every obligation [to God first] to use every tool at our disposal within the law to do the work of the Lord throughout the world.

    You misunderstand my position. I never gave any suggestion to "impose beliefs by government force". I believe I proposed using our military to HELP the oppressed break free from brutal and evil men. I believe there is a biblical warrant for helping those in need, NOT forcing those we help to believe as we do, that is something entirely different and unbiblical for they must turn to Jesus by their own free will and hopefully they will after seeing our great compassion.

    God Bless! :thumbs:
     
  7. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    1) You need to read the U.S. constitution. It says no such thing.

    2) No. The federal government is restricted to the powers enumerated in the U.S. constitution. You would do well to read what the Founding Fathers wrote as the the U.S. constitution was being formed - particularly The Federalist Papers.

    3) And I believe you have no right to use our military, funded by taxpayers' dollars, to be used in such an unconstitutional manner. The U.S. military's function is to go in and break things and destroy those who threaten the interests of the United States. The military is not the Peace Corp. Again, if you want to be involved in such then you are free to use the private means at your disposal. Just keep you hands off of money taken from me under the auspice of government force.
     
  8. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Is it the Bill of Rights then? Is the Bill of rights a government endorsed binding document and does it speak of a Creator? Does this then kinda take the "secular" myth out of our government?

    It seems that the US military is pretty much spread all over the globe as it is. Do you then suggest that we have been breaking the constitution for years? And if we have why are these people not being prosecuted?

    It seems that your money is more important to you then seeing people in need helped. I don't think Christ would take your side on that issue. I personally don't care how much it cost me as long as people are being helped.

    God Bless! :thumbs:
     
  9. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed New Member

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    You're confusing the Constitution with the Declaration of Independence.

    Because, sadly, most people over the past 125 or so years have believed like you. People are not going to prosecute themselves. On the plus side, there seems to be some shift of this opinion in the works. Many thanks to Ron Paul for his contribution to that.

    Good. Then you pay for it. Why are you still here? Why haven't you sacrificed all in order to go overseas to help people? The reason, because you'd rather sit at home, tell the rest of us what we should be doing to help other people, and then take our money for that purpose. I would much rather that my money go to helping people here who are in need rather than to people in other countries who love their dictator and wish death to all of us.

    If enough people in those countries want change, they will rise up against their oppresors and take it, just as we did against King George.
     
  10. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Man, you must be really old to remember Grover Cleveland! You oughtta' contact the Guinness Book of Records! :laugh: :laugh:

    Ed
     
  11. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Thanks brother :thumbs:

    I was wrong when i said the constitution. I was wrong when I said the Bill of Rights. Guess I should have looked it up. But the point remains correct that we are hardly a "secular" formed government.

    "sadly" ?

    From what I read in Jesus' book, caring about the oppressed in the world is not "sadly".

    Jesus heard the same cries from His people, yet He came to them anyways that He might save some of them. Paul felt the cries of death to himself as well, yet he was persuaded that his deeds were noble and loving.

    Have you sacrificed all? Are you overseas helping people? Do you ever tell people what we should be doing to help other people? Do you ever tell people how the money government takes in should be spent? (Matt 7:1-5)

    God Bless! :thumbs:
     
  12. JamieinNH

    JamieinNH New Member

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    Steaver,

    Since you seem to be so keen on helping others. Can you tell me what you have done this week to help others in need?

    While I understand your concept, I think you're going about this the wrong way. We are to help people. and I would be all for helping others if our people were taken care of first.

    We have kids that can't read or write. They have no home, their parents are looking for work, and when they do find work, it doesn't pay enough.

    Our streets can't be walked on at nights and in some places, during the day. Our entire political system is corrupt. Companies are looking for ways to get people out when they get close to retirement instead of paying them for their many years of hard work. The poor is getting poorer and the rich are getting richer. And all this is just the TIP of our problems within our country.

    So before we, the USA run out and "fight the good fight" shouldn't we get out house in order first?

    As far as the Presidental election goes. So far, in my opinion, unless Dr Paul wins, we will be stuck with the same ole' same ole' and it doesn't matter which party wins. If that is what everyone votes for, then that is exactly what they will get. Status Quo. Ron Paul is the only candiate with real ideas that will help move this country back together and forward.

    Jamie
     
  13. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1 Active Member
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    That's not a fair statement. It is a popular phrase, but highly inaccurate. Many try to say there's not a dimes worth of difference, but that too is very wrong. There are many, many conservative legislators in Congress, but they are currently wimpy, and or ineffective, due to a magnificent campaign of scorch and burn by the Dem's.
     
  14. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1 Active Member
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    And I might add, they are the only thing standing in the way of these radicals and their tax increasing and socialization programs. Well them and GWB.
     
  15. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1 Active Member
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    Wow, SN, I find myself in agreement with you yet again. I disagree with your last sentence, because the alternative would have been far more disastrous.
     
  16. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1 Active Member
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    Very good post.
     
  17. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    1) Yes.

    2) Because the people that run the federal Leviathan don't care about following what the Founding Fathers set up and we the people allow them to get away with it.

    3) Why should you be dictating how my money is spent?
     
  18. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    You mean the GWB and the Republican Party that added the largest social program in abourt forty years in the prescription drug plan? That GWB and Republican Party?
     
  19. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    They are gutless wonders, in other words.
     
  20. JamieinNH

    JamieinNH New Member

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    Ya see! They are all the same, no difference between the Democrats and the Republicans!

    Jamie
    President Ron Paul - That has a nice ring to it...
     
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