3 prominent Republicans join Carter, Clinton, Gore on New Covenant roster

I do not know what kind of conservatives you are speaking of because I had not met many like that who were in the SBC.

If it were not a problem the numbers would not be on a decline and the SBC spending their time stuck in formaldehyde fighting with each other. People who are doing evangelism do not have time for self preservation. There is too much work to be done to be spending it fighting in an effort to save the already dead who are doing nothing and engaged in self destruction.

If it is not a problem then why did Henry Blackaby address the issue of having conservative theology and living like practical atheists.

When I was in seminary I knew students who had gone to Baptist colleges and universities who had never shared their faith or even given their testimony. In the SBC I was quite shocked to see so many men sitting around while the women did the work. When I asked some other pastors about that they said that was typical for the SBC. Many pastors and told me that if it were not for the women nothing would get done. Years ago when I was looking for a church the woman on the other end of the phone asked me if I visietd people. I told her that I did and she came back with, "Good because the men in our church are working so hard that they do not have time to visit." What she did not know is that I grew up a few miles from where she was. I told her that my parents had a dairy farm and we found time to do what we found important. When she called the second time she asked me the same question again. This time I told her I would come if the men agreed to visit people. I never heard from them again. Every SBC church I pastored and interviewed with had the same problem. The men watched the women do the work.

Maybe you see something I don't.

 

I tend to agree with you. Baptists either need to shut up and get to work or give everything away and start all over. Most of them have lost their first love and spend so much time acting as formaldehyde instead of getting out there sharing the gospel and genuinely caring for people as Jesus did

 

It is two things. It is a statistics game and a game of manipulating people to give more.

I would not always contend that it is filling church rolls but a lack of discipleship. I know there are pastors who want that position and personal recognition because they are on an ego trip. However there are those who are humble godly men and are never recognized because they will not cave into such nonsense. I know for a fact that one of the leaders in the SBC every week for a few years preached the sermons of another man. Another past leader of the SBC I know who regularly preached against liberalism and said he believed the Bible preached another pastor's sermons for a few years without ever giving credit to the pastor.

I think it goes much deeper to personal ethics and honesty. For them to claim it is still liberalism is far from the truth. They is a lot of inward fighting amongst themselves. I believe that they do not know how to get along. I know for a fact that there is disagreement among some of the top leadership. Sometime ask Paige Patterson why the last registrar at SWBTS is no longer there and see if you get a straight honest answer.

Out of the 20% what is the gender of those doing the work in SBC churches. Frankly I got so tired of women doing the work men should have been doing. In one church I pastored I was successful in getting the men to lead. The church was better for it and their families were better for it. It was not an easy task. Perhaps you know the statisitcs in America that more women are in college than men and they get better grades and are more focused. Ever wonder why?

 

You are right in one way and not another. Why be connected with something you do not believe in? The SBC is not the largest mission organization.

I assume you are not in the pulpit every Sunday and hearing about the politics from those in the pew. I also assume you really do know what is going on. Sometime do a search on some of the leaders in the conservative resurgence and see where some of their relatives are in relation to the SBC. I know for a fact that one of them pastored a small church that died and then all of a sudden was pastoring a very large church in another state. Seem kinda strange to you?

What would you think if you knew that one of the SBC leaders lied about a man a church had considered their first choice for pastor and then the pulpit committee trusted the SBC leader by no longer considering the man and considered someone else. How would you like to know that the man they finally picked is a trustee at one of the SBC seminaries.

When I finally left the SBC it was amazing how much more time I had. I no longer went to a bunch of meetings where I listened to some guru talk about how to do church and how to make a church grow by reaching the wealthy.

Years ago when I was fresh out of seminary I replanted a church. After awhile I realized that the DOM had planted some churches in the area and the man in charge of church planting had never planted a church. The man in charge of church planting would give me advice that often made no sense. I eventually realized that what he told me was the same thing he was told by someone else. I moved to another state about 1200 miles away and heard exactly the same thing. The difference was that I had lived in that town for 14 years earlier and the man in charge of church planting had never pastored a church and had never planted one.

Why be involved with a group of people you do not believe in and do not trust?

There are many good local Bible believing , Bible preaching, evangelistic churches who do not have the problems the SBC has.

 

The truth is that it is not accusation because the leader who did such a thing later admitted the truth.

 

You can refuse to believe me but it is not any secret. It is written in the SBC papers, state papers, local papers and national news. Just do a google search.

You bet I have an agenda just as you do. My agenda is to have ungodliness removed. I asume that your agenda is to trust what they feed you without any verification. There are aways two sides to every story and the truth is uaually in there somewhere. Sometimes when you read your Bible and see the actions of some it is quite obvious that something does not add up. Most often I do a search or check some databases to verify something I read. Perhaps you have heard the nonsense and lies so much that it has grown on you and you do not the good from bad. That happened to me while I was pastoring until a new member confronted me on something and then realized how far I had accepted some things without a second thought.

You have got to be blind when you read that Paige Patterson wanted an addition to the president's home and within a few months of that time requested more money for the seminary. I have many friends who are missionaries and a few hundred dollars would go a long way. Who needs a 7500 square foot house to live in? How many people are living in that home? Just stack up what you see against scripture and the qualifications for leaders in a church. Doesn't that fit the greed package for a leader.

Go back and read the SBC papers for the past 10 or 15 years and you will see some consistent practices.

When Dilday was president of SWBTS, one of the trustees stated publically that Dilday did not believe in the inspiration of scripture. I knew he had written a book on that subject. So I checked out the book, read it and found the trustee to be a liar. Within a few weeks the book was pulled from the library shelf. When Dilday was fired the media caught them in a lie and finally the trustees admitted why they said what they did. ne of those trustees was later found ot be shacking up iwht a couple of ladies in his church.

I was told by some faculty member that students at SWBTS heard about former leaders of the SBC who have died long ago being bad mouthed by some of the current leaders in the SBC. It was made public on BB as well.

When was the last time you read about the BFA in the SBC. It is in plain English made available to the public. For awhile it was on the national news. Do a www.google.com search and type in Baptist Foundation of Arizona.

A few years back the SBC talked about one of my friends from seminary so I called him up and what he told me was much different than what the SBC published. He basically told me they had exaggerated the real story. They were extolling the virtues of something he had done in enlisiting their help. He also told me that he would never ask for help from the SBC again.

When the trouble started I called some of the professors at SWBTS to find out what was going on. There were some consistent answers I got from each person I talked to.

In one church I pastored were three members who worked within the SBC organization. Often they came back with stories from their meetings. Sometimes they asked for my opinion about some things. It did not take much to see the handwriting on the wall. There has been a deliberate effort on the part of some of the leaders to bring in people who are very different theologically than what the SBC has been since 1845.

For example Paige Patterson is a dispensationalist. He has made it a point to hire some people with education from DTS and other seminaries and universities that do not hold to the typical SBC theology of the past since 1845. All you have to do is to do some work and see where the faculty have gotten their degrees from and what articles they have published.

There is a lot more of a hidden agenda than you can imagine. I do not trust any of them to tell anyone the real truth.

Just look at the recent garbage in MO with the SBC suing each other. How godly do you find that? Seems starnge thast SBC folks would roll over and play dead letting the secular courts solve their problems.

Prov. 18:17, "The first to plead his case seems right, until another comes and examines him."