1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

3 Reasons Why the Preacher Population Is Shrinking and What to Do About It

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by gb93433, May 2, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    3
    I worked my way through college. Granted, it was in the late '70's and early '80's, but I earned my way.

    Now I'm fixing to go back and get my MS. Getting some help because I'm 'handicapped'. Don't really care to do it that way but that's the only way I can afford to go.
     
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,436
    Likes Received:
    1,574
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So I'm getting the gut feeling that there are a glut of Pastors. I know when we went looking they were coming out of the wood work. At least for SBC's
     
  3. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,382
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have received no help from anyone, with the exception of some loans in the last part of my Masters degree. However, that was a personal decision; I could have worked another job, but wanted to complete the work at a faster pace.
     
  4. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is extremely rare. Haven't heard of a church with this in probably ten years.
     
  5. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0

    I know there have been a rash of "Pink Slip Callings" over the past 3 years or so. But I don't think there's an overage of pastors. The number of new guys could be flooding the market. Also, pastors are staying longer due to the poor economy, and more churches are going Bivocational (in my nearby association in the past 5 years, at least 7 full-time churches went bivo and 2 more are considering it). That tends to make openings harder to come by as more FT guys are vying for less positions. And we've had some church closings, not on the scale predicted yet, but they've happened.
     
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,436
    Likes Received:
    1,574
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That is a shame:(
     
  7. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    1
    What ever happened to churches doing their own research and inviting a man to preach for a call?

    It will be frosty friday that I send a resume to a church for a preaching position.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,436
    Likes Received:
    1,574
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jim....Im assuming they are mostly referring to SBC Churches & not Reformed Baptist and/or The Fellowship Canadian Churches. Am I right in that assumption?
     
  9. michael-acts17:11

    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pastorship has been turned into a career instead of a calling. Young men are not willing to put in the time to be trained "in the trenches" as less than numero UNO. They want the power & position of a senior pastor right out of college. I wonder how much Philip was paid for preaching the Word.

    What ever happened to following the example of Paul? I think bi-vocation makes for more mature pastors who understand how the world works outside the church walls. Also, what percentage of monies given are spent on overhead to operate the church as a business & have nothing to do with the actual purposes for assembling as described in Eph 4?

    A church of 100 could easily fill the need for ministers without all of the expense of career "ministers". Four or five elders from within the congregation could share the burdens & responsibilities; just as it was done in Scripture.
     
    #29 michael-acts17:11, May 10, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2011
  10. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,724
    Likes Received:
    0
    What in the world is wrong with "White hair?" I am at the moment bi-vocational and when retirement comes it will become fulltime for me. I am as vibrant and eager for the souls of people in the name of Christ as any 25 to 30 year old. What ever happened to the direction of Paul when choosing a Bishop ment not choosing a novice?
     
  11. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    My hair isn't white at all (well, virtually) and I have 20 years experience. So lack of white hair doesn't mean you're a novice.

    I'd also say you're the exception and not the rule. Most of the guys I know 60 and over are biding their time til they can draw a pension check, or are still in the pastorate because they can't. However, this may be just my experience, but I've heard this shared by other leaders all over.

    The abundance of white hair is not an indictment of them...it's an indictment of the rest of the church and its ministers. When this generation of pastors dies off or retires, there is a crisis as to who will fill their shoes.

    So you misunderstood. I'm not blasting those who have served a long time. I'm blasting the ministers who are choosing not to pursue the call, and the churches who have given them ample reason to justify that choice.
     
  12. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,382
    Likes Received:
    0
    The example of Paul? You do remember him saying that the minister was supposed to be supported, right? Worn out, bi-vocational ministers is the last thing we need more of! That would result in even MORE scripturally bereft churches.

    Look at the model of Acts. The deacons did the manual work, so the elders/apostles could devote themselves to study and preaching. Elders are to be paid, according to scripture, and those who teach are to be paid double.

    Instead of robbing the ministers, the churches need to quit worrying about big fancy buildings, and any mission work that isn't PRIMARILY about the proclamation of the gospel.
     
  13. go2church

    go2church Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    4,304
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You aren't flying under the idea that you are going to be able to find a job that allows you to just sit and study all day are you?
     
  14. michael-acts17:11

    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    0
    Acts 18:3 And because he(Paul) was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers.

    Acts 20:33-34 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.

    Paul supported himself & those who were with him by the sweat of his brow. Jesus was carpenter, which was a very physically demanding occupation. I'd like to see preachers following these examples of work ethic & not living off of the donations of others that could be going toward the furtherance of the Gospel.

    Volunteer teachers & leaders in the church must do their studying in addition to holding down full-time jobs. I don't see in Scripture where certain spiritual gifts require financial support above & beyond any others. Multiple pastors & preachers(two different gifts) within the congregation can handle the responsibilities of these gifts without the financial expenditures.
     
  15. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    3
    You have some very noble ideas but they are not practicable for EVERY pastor in EVERY church- nor are they Biblical as pointed out earlier.

    I am bi-vocational and I love it- works great for me in the ministry that I am in now. But it would not work in some places.
     
  16. Crucified in Christ

    Crucified in Christ New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    0
    I scarcely know a Pastor who is not worn out...bivocational or full-time.
     
  17. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,382
    Likes Received:
    0
    :) Isn't that the truth!

    The problem with the bi-vocational minister, is that he is doubly worn out, though. It is one thing to be worn out because you were up praying with a dying woman until three o'clock Friday morning at the hospital. It is another thing altogether, to have a lazy tightfisted congregation tell such a man, "Now get up at 7:00, and go to work, so you can pay your bills. And don't forget to have that dynamic earth shattering sermon ready on Sunday morning, AND Sunday night... Hope you get five minutes between all this for your wife and kids, but if not who cares? Your here to pander to us."

    A congregation that has the ABILITY to support their minister full time, but refuses to do so because they think he needs to do "real work," is sinning. Period.

    Micheal: Paul was the only "tent-maker" of the apostles, and he did it because the congregations were grudging and stingy. Notice what he says...

    1Co 9:6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living?

    1Co 9:7 Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard without eating any of its fruit? Or who tends a flock without getting some of the milk?
    1Co 9:8 Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same?
    1Co 9:9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain." Is it for oxen that God is concerned?
    1Co 9:10 Does he not speak entirely for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop.
    1Co 9:11 If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?
    1Co 9:12 If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more? Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ.
    1Co 9:13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings?
    1Co 9:14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

    And...

    1Ti 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.
    1Ti 5:18 For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages."


    If you are wondering what "honor" means in this text...

    timè„
    tee-may'
    From G5099; a value, that is, money paid, or (concretely and collectively) valuables..
     
  18. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,549
    Likes Received:
    15
    Now I would ask how many are you leading to help them grow.

    When I worked as a building contractor (being gone an average of 11 hours per day) I led three discipleship groups each week for a total of 20 men and women. When I was pastoring full time I found an enormous number of lazy pew sitters who expected me to do the work of ministry. Too often having a full time pastor is an excuse for people to do little or nothing. I seldom found an elder or leader in any church that knew how to make disciples outside of coming to church and give a Sunday School lesson. It is amazing the excuses I hear from people today about how little time they have. I often wonder how much time they waste sitting in front of the computer.
     
  19. michael-acts17:11

    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    0
    The point that many are missing is that "multiple pastors & preachers(two different gifts) within the congregation can handle the responsibilities of these gifts". We need to get away from the idea of a singular senior pastor & move towards a multiple, equal-authority & responsibility elders paradigm. Sole-authority pastors are burning out because the church structure is set up to overload one career-minded man instead of having the load shared by capable members of the church body.

    We cannot change how congregations view the combined(unScripturally) roles of pastors(elders) & preachers(evangelists) until we reform the very structure of the church.
     
    #39 michael-acts17:11, May 12, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2011
  20. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,549
    Likes Received:
    15
    That has nothing to do with laziness among those ion the congregation who want to hide and pay the pastor to work as they do in their job. The problem is not just limited to the church. It is society at large too.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...