4 or 5 views on essential doctrines?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by CarpentersApprentice, Jun 23, 2008.

  1. CarpentersApprentice

    CarpentersApprentice
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    Are the topics discussed in the books listed here* - with each view steeped in Bible verses - the essential doctrines of Christianity?

    If yes, how is one to decide which view is THE biblical view?

    -Perspectives on the Doctrine of God: Four Views
    -The Nature of the Atonement: Four Views
    -Four Views on Salvation in a Pluralistic World
    -Predestination and Free Will: Four Views of Divine Sovereignty and Human Freedom
    -Divine Foreknowledge: Four Views
    -Perspectives on Election: Five Views
    -Four Views on Eternal Security
    -Five Views on Sanctification
    -Five Views on Law and Gospel
    -Who Runs the Church?: 4 Views on Church Government

    (*These books were published by Zondervan, InterVarsity, or B&H since the mid-1980's. You can look on Amazon.com for a brief sketch of the views.)

    Thanks for the help.

    CA

    (NOTE: If these are not the esentials then please feel free to start another thread on what are the essential doctrines of the faith. In this thread I'm interested in how to determine the correct interpretation of the above topics. Thanks.)
     
  2. CarpentersApprentice

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    Perhaps we should table the "how is one to decide which view is THE biblical view" question.

    Allow me to refocus the inquiry: Are ANY of the above topics essential doctrine?

    Feel free to choose however many you think are essential.

    Thanks.

    CA
     
    #2 CarpentersApprentice, Jul 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2008
  3. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
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    My goodness, it should go without saying that these are all very important, and essential for anyone wanting a thorough understadning of christian doctrine.

    And the fact that many different views of each one are adressed is a VERY good and very profitable thing....

    Proverbs 11:14

    Cant understand why this one is with those others.


    :godisgood:
     
  4. CarpentersApprentice

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    AiC,

    I have always understood this proverb to mean that as we spoke to a variety of people there would emerge a consensus of opinion that would help us know the right thing to do.

    Please expand on...

    1. Does good and profitable equal safe? If not always, then how does good and profitable equal safe in this instance?

    2. What the proverb means in relation to a variety of views on essential doctrine being very good and very profitable?

    CA
     
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    We live in a MUCH darker age spiritually than the Dark Age. That time, it was expected of all Christians to at least know by heart the Lord's Prayer and Psalm 23. Maybe there was something else - maybe the Apostolic Confession. Do you - whoever - know these by heart; can you recite them, now?

    I cannot. Would knowing it by heart secured my salvation? No!

    So what's 'essential' for a Christian is not to know, but to have; not to understand, but to believe. Then to praise God for his unfathomable kindness and Glory in the Face of Jesus Christ.

    If any extasy, if any boasting, if any exaltation, than in Jesus Christ the Lord, in vain be it, for Jesus Christ is the only essential of - the only, Salvation.
     
  6. CarpentersApprentice

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    Good to "speak" with you again, GE.

    Please expand a bit on what you mean by the above statement.

    Thanks.

    CA
     
  7. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
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    Carpenters Apprentice...

    I'm not sure about the "consensus" part. When we have different views, and people are listening to one another, it doesnt always mean that everyone will...in the end...join hands, sing a few verses or "Kum By Ya" and be in complete agreement. :)

    But they will...by hearing different views...have a much greater pool of wisdom from which to develop a conviction.

    Not neccesarily, but I think it gives everyone a much better chance at attaining a well rounded understanding.

    Again, I dont think "perfection" will ever be attained regarding doctrine. We are flawed, Gods word isnt. We are human, Gods scriptures come ultimetly from the mind of Almighty God. We will always be learning.

    Hopefully what I have posted so far in this post will give me view on that to some extent.

    I believe its good and healthy for the Calvinists to interact with the Arminians, the Fundamentalists to interact with the Moderates, the Charismatics and Pentecostals to interact with the Baptists and the Church of Christers, etc etc.

    As long as everyone is willing to LISTEN and not get hateful and mean spirited. We fail in that area so much of the time, unfortunetly.



    :godisgood:
     
  8. trustitl

    trustitl
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    I will let Paul give my opinion on which of these are essential:

    "I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung".


    If we were to say these are essential, I think Paul would say: " I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel"

    The fact that many think these are essential Paul says " Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like"


    "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another."
     
  9. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    GE
    I'll with pleasure tell you two true stories about this, one I heard, and the other I experienced myself.

    There was this stately old lady though poor and uneducated, who attended a public meeting held by a prominent scholar to vent his atheistic ideas. The audience applauded, but stood up this old lady and said something like: I am not able to understand much of what you say, and do not have answers to your denials of God. But this I have, and can tell you, God exists and is my Maker, that I know, because I have Him in my heart, through Jesus whom the Bible tells me of, who saved me from perdition. Those townsfolk without exception filled about six churches each Sunday. This woman knew they would go to the lectures of the scholar undivided, so she went too. Of the whole town, one voice of dissent was heard: hers. She had Jesus; because Jesus had her.

    The other story was when I was about fourteen years of age, and my best and only friend who visited, about thirteen. A Seventh Day Adventist was visiting and stayed over a few days. My parents also were SDA (the purest Christians you ever saw). From nowhere and uninvited the visitor rude broke in on our boyish play and insultingly began to belittle my young friend, who of course wouldn't have had a clue what the man was talking about. That episode shocked me to the deepest of my being. I have often thought afterwards, Why did I not call Christianity en gross a day? Because Faith as young as I was, would not let go of me; neither did it let go of my friend. What a man of stature he became! He became to me one great ideal and inspiration. He believed young as he was, little if anything he understood.

    And another of another dear brother in Christ, who virtually and mostly actually, knew the whole Bible by heart - he could recite from any few words to show which, without stop, as I remember. Despite his knowledge, he understood very little concerning much of the Scriptures; But he had Jesus Christ, and he believed unto redemption and everlasting life. He had knowledge, but lacked understanding, but nevertheless, had faith and enjoyment of Christ.
     
  10. Matt Black

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    "Essential" for what, exactly? Salvation? Fellowship/communion?
     
  11. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Speaking of the essentials of Christian Doctrine which is Faith, I would say - according to Paul in about all his epistles, Romans and Galatians especially - a first essential is the Law of God.
    I only very recently began to develop (or truer, began to receive) insight into the 'Law-question'. I have begun to see God's Law as really one of the first principles of Christianity as such, of Christian Faith, and of Christian Good News. I have received RADICAL, totally revolutionary - and am convinced not in the slightest illusionary, understanding. I have made sure about that, and am still making sure about that. I maintain therefore, Christianity that does not start and end with the Law of God, must stop trying to fool innocent souls it is no longer of concern to the believer of Jesus Christ.
     
  12. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    "The fear of God" - The Law of God - says the Old Testament Law somewhere, "is the first principle of wisdom". The New Testament Law says, The fear of God, The Law of God, is the First principle of salvation - any and all other 'essentials' of Christian and saving Faith, starts with it, and shoots from it.

    What have I done! I have begun something too big for me. I already feel tired and exhausted just thinking of the scope of the subject I have stretched my hand out to. I pray God it won't be as with those priests who handled the ark of the covenant while it was moved. So I ask in advance for the forgiveness of my sins.
     
  13. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Without the forgiveness of my sins I cannot proceed one step forward. The Law of God is the beginning; the forgiveness of sins is the beginning; the knowledge, awareness, acknowledgment and dealing with my sins, is the beginnings of Christian Faith and doctrine. It is the border post into the promised land; it is the Rubicon to Victory.
     
  14. Alive in Christ

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    Gerhard,

    I certainly understand and agree with you regarding the importance of the Law. It is essential regarding God working out His purposes.

    However, once a person has come to the end of themself and is regenerated, that born again person has been freed from, delivered from, and no longer under the curse of the Law...




    :godisgood:
     
  15. drfuss

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    Books listed in OP:

    Perspectives on the Doctrine of God: Four Views
    -The Nature of the Atonement: Four Views
    -Four Views on Salvation in a Pluralistic World
    -Predestination and Free Will: Four Views of Divine Sovereignty and Human Freedom
    -Divine Foreknowledge: Four Views
    -Perspectives on Election: Five Views
    -Four Views on Eternal Security
    -Five Views on Sanctification
    -Five Views on Law and Gospel
    -Who Runs the Church?: 4 Views on Church Government

    drfuss: I have the book "Four Views on Eternal security" and find it very helpful and interesting. All of the above would be good reading material for Christians studying the Bible.

    The problem is that Christains tend to study only the view that they have been taught and assume all the other views are wrong. in addition, most Bible study Christians only study theologian's views that agree with them. One of the values of BB here is to cut through some of that; however one can only scratch the surface here on BB.

    I have found that all views are based on some scriptures. I have also found that Christians tend to misrepresent other views, mostly because the other views have been misrepresented to them. These books appear to provide a means of actually knowing what other Christains believe rather than the hearsay going around that many times misrepresent the other views only in a negative context.

    Thanks for the list, I intend to buy some so I can know what other people actually believe.
     
  16. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Alive in Christ:
    "However, once a person has come to the end of themself and is regenerated, that born again person has been freed from, delivered from, and no longer under the curse of the Law..."

    GE
    You have gone straight to the heart of the issue! My question is however: Once a person has come to the end of himself and is regenerated, that born again person has been brought under the curse of the Law first time! It is the only explanation I could find for the paradox of Romans 7! God in his judgment this side of the end, concerns Himself in his Grace with those whom He regenerates and has regenerated. God leaves the lost to bury their own dead; but He revives His saved ones that they might crucify the old man. That implies the curse of the Law that saith: "The reward for sin is death!" Who said that? God, who said: "The sinner that sins, must die!" It is God, the Speaker of judgment, speaking. It is The Law to them only God might in mercy visit! "Who shall deliver me of this body of death (death's penalty or 'reward' for murderers): I thank God, through Jesus Christ!" The killing of the old man BEGINS with the new man being born in a believer; it means not the killing of the old man ended! THIS, verily this - is the Law whereby one is saved; there is no other Law whereby one may live and be freed. He is free who has taken up his cross, only. It is Christ become the Law of 'Sin >>> Death!' to a person before He becomes the Law of Life and Spirit to the same. Christ is all the Law of God; also the Law of God while it kills in order to make alive again. Do not despise 'the Law of sin and death' in your life and over you all your life long: It is the Token of God's Mercy over you all your life long. It is Christ through His Holy Spirit, convincing you of sin and of judgment without having gone through first and all your life long, you are in your sins yet and in your sins shall die.
     
    #16 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2008
  17. CarpentersApprentice

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    Matt,

    Excellent question!

    Lets go with essential to be a mature Christian.

    CA
     
  18. CarpentersApprentice

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    Gerhard Ebersoehn, Alive in Christ, drfuss, trustitl,

    Thanks for entering into the discussion. Gives a person something to ponder.

    CA
     
  19. Matt Black

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    OK:

    1. The Trinity
    2. The full deity and full humanity of Jesus Christ
    3. Man's fallen nature, with its penalty being eternal death
    4. Christ's redemptive death on the Cross, dying in our stead for our sins.
    5. His glorious resurrection and ascension into heaven
    6. His future return to judge the living and the dead
    7. Faith in the above, working out through the pursuit of holiness in co-operation with the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit
     
  20. billwald

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    The lesson of this thread should be that the Bible is not self-interpreting.
     

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