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5 stones

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by C.S. Murphy, Jan 11, 2004.

  1. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    Sorry, but the Bible is a little more than a history book. The Holy Spirit inspired holy men as they were moven in the Spirit to pen this Book. You'd better believe the "5 stones" has spiritual implications, and I am addressing the issue and it's just too bad that people express their opinions and deny that their opinions expresssed are open for criticism.

    It is a lack of certain levels of spirituality to acertain the Bible is not implicating spiritual meaning. I'm not denigrating anyone's individual spirituality as you have mine, Thank You.

    The number five is in direct relation to the topic of "5 stones" and I find your responses a bit condemning as well.
     
  2. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Ezra 2:19 The children of Hashum, two hundred twenty and three.

    I won't be able to sleep until I understand the spiritual significance of 223 in this verse. Can anyone help? After that, can someone explain the 95 from the next verse? Or better yet, someone want to tackle the whole chapter, including the 435 camels horses in verse 67? I sure don't want to miss out on the deep spiritual significance here, and there must be lots because there are so many numbers! ;)
     
  3. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    "brother" larry is that a "command"?</font>[/QUOTE]I am not sure why "brother" is in quotation marks. But yes, it is a command. 2 Timothy 4:2 preach the word;

    I would laugh myself to scorn if I believe that. I believe it was God's sovereignty in action. But there is nothing in the text that connects that to five stones. That is where you have departed from the text.

    And where did the Lord tell you this was his reason??? If you don't have a place where God told you this, then you are speculating. And unless you have received some special revelation, you have no place where the Lord told you that.

    I don't need to be reminded of this truth. It is in fact, something we talked about yesterday morning in our adult Bible fellowship. But it has nothing to do with this topic in the least. Perhaps you could start a thread on this verse. You might find some interested in talking about it.

    I hvae no mud; I need nothing other than grace. But I have biblical reason to connect that with five stones. And that is indeed the topic of this thread. To insinuate some are not spiritual because we insist on sticking with what God actually said is not a good method of judgment on that issue. The Bible does tell us how to judge whether things or people are spiritual. Attaching some meaning to "five stones" is not one of those methods. It should not be be your standard either.
     
  4. skanwmatos

    skanwmatos New Member

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    223 = Division, Division, Perfection.
    95= Judgment, Grace.
    435 = Creation, Perfection, Grace. Oh, and 67 = Man, Spiritual Perfection. :D :D :D

    Don't laugh! I know some people who actually believe this stuff! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  5. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    O.K. ***name calling not allowed***, how many fingers am I holding up? It had better be five! How many letters in
    g r a c e?
    m e r c y?

    I wonder??? any implications there?

    On the fingers issue, if you thought any less than 5 ,well that's your problem. :D

    [ January 12, 2004, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]
     
  6. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    S a t a n?
    d e a t h?
    c a m e l?
    s i l l y?

    May God bless you boutifully, and yes I mean it. [​IMG]

    [ January 12, 2004, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]
     
  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Ok, fellas I am out of this discussion - enjoy yourselves [​IMG]
     
  8. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    hmmmm ... let me think ...

    s a t a n
    d e v i l
    d e m o n
    h a d e s
    c u r s e

    I think we are on a roll here ... can I get an amen-uh ???? ... No, I mean a real amen-UH... someone just shout it out-UH ... who can help me out here-UH?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  9. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    QuickeningSpirit said:

    Now I suppose this is going to end up a debate over the inspiration of Scripture issue?

    Never even brought it up.

    All I did was make an observation regarding the posts that said "it has no spiritual implications"

    Maybe it doesn't.

    You people just like to jump all over me don't you?

    If you don't like being jumped all over, don't draw wacky conclusions.
     
  10. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    It may be your screen name, but i have only one pastor, Pastor andy Saunchegraw of the Landmark Baptist Church, calling your "pastor" woul be wrong. Also it denotes an attempt to be some one's pastor with out any leadership of the Holy Ghost. I hope that doesn't bother you, but I am just stating the facts so you're not offended I hope :rolleyes:

    You do? You mean you argue that it doesn't have spiritual implications, but then say you have Biblical reason to connect it? Oh! You must have meant "no reason". Since this is a theological discussion, why is it in the fundamental section? Is this a joke instigated by CS Murphy, a moderator?

    But pray-tell, why did the LORD/ Holy Spirit, have it placed in His Book as 5 stones and not just one stone,er, that's all it took, but that's the qeustion, but we find it worded that way in a spiritual book given to man by a Spirit/ The Spirit? Hmmm? I can't seem to "disconnect" it somehow. [​IMG]



    I believe I addressed this satisfactorilly above
    I am laughing! [​IMG] You mean that God is a Spirit and that His Sovereignty somehow overrides His Word as being spiritual? All words are spirit except in text form, they carry spiritual implications with them, I do hope you're responses are in the right spirit, unless you care for me to take my turn at reading the spirit of your posts as so many have mine! (exclaimation point: that is readable spiritually, I exclaimed something!) [​IMG]

    Here's another example of spirtual implication:
    Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word

    Is your Bible wet? Have you literally taken your soaking wet Bible and washed yourself with it? Hmmmm? Must be something more than meets the eye to this little matter of spiritual implications?

    Words have water? Now I can see where the word "H2O" could be seen as water, and the term "hydra" implicates the presence of water, and of course "water" well that's self explanatory, but how is it you were "washed"
    ( indicating water by the way) by water that came from a word? unless of course there are spiritual implications to that verse?

    Maybe you are washed in the Blood of Jesus too? Is there a bathtub some where all sinners are to get in literally and be washed by His Blood?

    Now if there is no spiritual implication to the Word of God Who is a Spirit, well, according to
    John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (Imagine that, the Spirit worshipped in spirit, but without any spiritual implications according to Larry?) [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Or is only certain passages in your Bible have spiritual implications? I might get rid of the book and get the Bible!( No, that is not a detracting to a KJVO/MV debate!), but it might be seen that way.

    O.K. Larry's "discussion" in his adult SS class overrides the spiritual implications of the Spirit of God inspiring holy men to pen down the Word of God which is a spiritual basis for all doctrines of God dealing with spiritual wickedness in high places implied specififcally in the passage.
     
  11. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    S a t a n?
    d e a t h?
    c a m e l?
    s i l l y?

    May God bless you boutifully, and yes I mean it. [​IMG]
    </font>[/QUOTE]I can see this took some real thought a deep theological endeavor as well taking a remarkable amount of time, but does "context" have any implications to the text?

    ***Name calling is not showing grace***

    [ January 12, 2004, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]
     
  12. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    Don't go away mad Brother Roger, just go away. I'm only joking, I meant none offense
     
  13. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    Didn't have to, the scent was in the air [​IMG]
    Maybe it does! :D
    Next time you want to play leap frog, make sure everybody else knows. [​IMG]
     
  14. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    I am not a numerologists and don't know enough about it to contribute any argument - will look on though.
     
  15. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Not offended in the least. I used the name "pastor Larry" because "Larry" was already taken and I am not into wierd screen names. Pastor Larry is who I am. It has nothing to do with trying to be someone's pastor. And the "Holy Ghost" should be properly called the "Holy Spirit" since that is what Scripture calls him. Pastor is also a title. It is appropriate to use it, just as you call men "doctor" who are not your actual doctor.

    To say that you have only one pastor doesn't really mean much. Most of the people at my church call me Larry. That is fine with me.

    I accidentally left out the word "no." I, like you, have no biblical reason to connect 5 with grace. We should not do it.

    I have no idea.

    You can't seem to disconnect it???? You never got it connected. Why did the Lord place it in his book as five stones??? Is the obvious too obvious too see??? David picked up five stones. That is why it says "five stones." There is nothing spiritual there, just as there is nothing spiritual in the other uses of "five" in Scripture. The question for you is "why five" when it only took one??? The sovereignty of God operated on the first stone, not the fifth. David didn't need five.



    Where??? You didn't tell us anywhere where the Lord told you why five stones. Please use the words of the Lord to tell us this, not your own imagination.

    No, I don't mean taht at all. I mean that God used words that mean one thing in teh context, just like all other words mean. There are many words with no spiritual implication. Don't depart from teh doctrine of SCripture and its sufficiency to try to make a case that is unnecessary.

    The word is well defined in Scripture as a cleanser. The difference between this situation and the "five stones" is that we can go to Scripture and show that the word is what cleanses us. You cannot go to Scripture and show anything about five. That comes out of someone's imagination.

    The Bible has spiritual teachings. They are made from teh text as given by God. They are not made with man's imagination. When you start down this "spiritual meaning" hidden in words you have left the biblical doctrine of Scripture and asserted that your mind is the authority. As Baptists, we believe in biblical authority. Our authority comes from teh text and what it says. We should refuse extra biblical speculation. Since God has not told us that "five" means anything other than "five," we should stick with that.

    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: In case you forgot, this thread is about five stones, not about the use of Scripture is spiritual warfare. Five stones means fives stones. We need to accept that since that is what Scripture says. It does not say anything else.
     
  16. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    While you guys have been argueing with each other----ummmmmmmmm----look yonder---the giants are makin' another assault! Pay attention to the battle, boys! You'll feel the point of Goliath's spear if you don't!!!

    You ever thought what it was like on that battlefield David was on?? I've rehearsed myself being there and of which weapon I would most likely want to be killed with if I were to be killed!!! And I have concluded that I would not have wanted to be killed with a spear---I mean, can you imagine that spear makin' its charge through your mid-section?? I've got this strange funny feelin' that there were "many-a'" good Israelite soldier die at the point of Goliath's spear---simply because they refused to "die to self" first!! But DAVID!!!!! Spiritually now---you know what he was on that battlefield as he was approaching Goliath??? He was a "Dead Man--Walking!!" He had done died to self and his life was hidden in Christ Jesus his Lord!!! He couldn't fail because Christ had done promised not to fail him!!! David "died" to self---before Goliath even felt the stone's penetration in his cold, hard "knoggin'!" If we would die to self like David did---We'd win more battles against the Goliath's of this world---If we would die to self--we'd spend more time fighting the enemy then we do fighting each other!!

    Five Stones?? Murph---you still there??? You still looking for an answer???

    Five is the Bible number for POWER!!! David came against Goliath in the name of the Lord of Hosts and in the power of His might!!!!

    Brother David
     
  17. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Preach it, Blackbird, preach it, Brother!

    Gotta come down to Mississippi some time & hear you preach! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    What a shot in the arm! [​IMG]

    Hallelujah! PTL! Yippee! [​IMG]

    Oh, Christian, are you discouraged - The Battle is the Lord's!

    [​IMG]
     
  18. georgeS

    georgeS New Member

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    Well, this is my first post, so it will be right in the middle of the fire. The 5 stones means nothing. Why are we assigning code and numerology or something to Gods word? David could have just as well picked up one stone and "maybe" completed the job. If you go out with the goal of winning 2 people to Christ, do you just take 2 tracks with you? No, David knew he had a job to do and he equipped himself to do the job. It was not a lack of faith on his part.
     
  19. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    O.K. I see now, David slew the giant and it has absolutely no spiritual application and isn't worth preaching except, by your standard, on the Sovereignty of God. The account has nothing to do with grace, there was nothing to even allude to being more than overcomers in Christ, has absolutely nothing to hint towards faith, etc, etc. The double etc. is because the Word of God is alive and not limited to your dead theology. I also suppose you can't preach a Gospel message from this text as well. Probably the most "famous" titles I've heard, "How To Get AHead" was just the wasted efforts concocted in the imagination of a man, and everyone who has been helped by the preaching of the message is deceived and should go back to being defeated all the time because they too were as Eliab at one time. I borrow a phrase from a fellow laborer, "That dog won't hunt". If tyou want to remain limited by your theology that's your business, but maybe you should learn a little application of the interpetation to enlarge your coasts. Jabez prayed that prayer and God honoured his request, He just might yours too.
     
  20. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    I say A-men! Wonder if grace has anything to with God's power? :eek:

    I mean if I'm saved by grace through faith, isn't that God's "power"? Isn't the preaching of the Cross the "power" of God and where grace established it's control over sin by the Blood of Jesus? I mean, where sin abounded, grace doth much more abound? When ruddy David put on Saul's armour it hadn't been tried, but the very "power" given to David, I just wonder, did grace have anything to do withit? Hmmm? Grace? Power? I wonder if there's a connection? Hmmm?

    Those "five" stones, where did they come from? The brook, wonder how they got "smooth", reckon "washing of water by the word" had anything to do with the smoothing of those stones? I "IMAGINE" it did!

    Can't understand when you expound on grace so evident in the passage of I Sam 17 that some would dare to deny it's presence, it's power, it's penetrating into "things" like a giants forehead. When I am told not to use my imagination and yet the scripture expressly says to set my affections on things above and not on the things of the earth, and eye hath not seen, nor ear heard or even entered into the heart of man the things that God has prepared for him that love Him and await His coming, has nothing, nothing to do with these 5 stones, no, nothing to do with grace. Hmmm?

    SLAP! Excuse me, I almost imagined a street of gold and a crystal sea, walls of jasper and sardine stone, beryl and sardonyx, gates of pearl and a throne that shone round about with 24 elders bowed before it and the singing of the Redeemed! And Him who sat on that throne, Wow! what a face that outshines the sun! SLAP! Shame on you imagination for even thinking about such a thing! Hmmmm? 5 stones?
     
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