5 views on the atonement

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Apr 11, 2008.

?

Which view of the atonement is the closest to your view?

  1. Particular atonement, as defined by classic calvinism.

    42.3%
  2. General atonement. Unlimited potential but limited acceptance by man.

    38.5%
  3. Universal atonement-all will be saved

    3.8%
  4. Universal atonement-some will reject but that is just a choice, not a sin.

    3.8%
  5. Atonement for all sins except for unbelief. (you are on your own for that one)

    11.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    With all the discussion lately on the atonement, I have come understand 5 different positions on it.
    3 are limited in someway, 2 are universal.
    4 views show that some will go to hell.

    I am sure there are shades of difference within these 5 I have come up with but they should make a good general statement.
     
  2. Amy.G

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    Dale, I know I sound like a broken record but I truly believe that in order to understand the atonement of Christ, we must go back to the OT and study the sacrificial system and the atonement the high priest offered on behalf of all Israel.
    We must also understand the temple was a copy of the real temple in heaven. It gives us insight into what goes on at the throne of God when dealing with sin and atonement for it.
    We must also look at the first passover and why the Lord passed by certain houses.

    I think if we can understand these things, we will have a true understanding of the atonement of Christ, who is the true Lamb of God that was spoken of in the OT.
     
  3. webdog

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    Well, I can't vote for any of them, because it is flawed. If you had ...

    Universal atonement-some will reject but that is just a choice, It IS still a sin.

    ...or Amy's answer condensed, I could.
     
    #3 webdog, Apr 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2008
  4. swaimj

    swaimj
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    This poll is actually about the extent of the atonement, not the definition of the atonement. A poll on the definition of the atonement would include: atonement as healing, atonement as penal substitution, and atonement as Christus Victor. Perhaps there are even more possible definitions
     
  5. Jon-Marc

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    I'm not overly bright and don't fully understand all the choices in order to vote. As for atonement, it was bought by the blood of Christ Jesus for all. Some will accept it, but most will not. God knows who will and who will not accept His gift of eternal life.
     
  6. tinytim

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    You are right, it does help...
    But there is a fundamental difference.. .the blood of bulls and goats could not take away sin.. .they just covered it... that is why it had to be done yearly...

    Jesus took away the sin... once and for all...

    For further study, read Hebrews chapter 10.
     
  7. Amy.G

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    Yes. The OT sacrificial system was a shadow of the perfect sacrifice.
     
  8. russell55

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    Yes, exactly.

    The OT sacrifice of atonement was an outward thing only. The priest, on the day of atonement, made a sacrifice on behalf of the whole nation—his people. The sacrifice he presented cleansed the whole nation outwardly, so that God could to remain with the people—the nation Israel.

    Christ's is the sacrifice that doesn't just clean outwardly, but really takes away sin.

    I think that making parallels between the two systems is a good way to understand the atonement. And as long as we're making parallels between the OT sacrifice of atonement and Christ's sacrifice of atonement, if Christ was the priest of his sacrifice (which he was, see Hebrews 2:16-17) who were the people that he represented? Is everyone in the world one of Christ's people or are believers throughout the world (the offspring of Abraham through faith) Christ's people?
     
  9. webdog

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    This can be answered using the same OT comparison. Were all of the israelites justified?
     
  10. russell55

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    Nope, but I don't know how that's relevant, because although the OT sacrifice of atonement was made on behalf of the whole nation, the OT sacrifice of atonement couldn't justify anyone. That wasn't its function. It's function was to provided an outward cleansing—a purification of the flesh, but not the conscience.

    The relevant question is this: Did the OT sacrifice of atonement accomplish a temporary outward cleansing of the whole nation? In what it was actually able to do able to do, was it effective for all those on whose behalf it was made?
     
  11. Dale-c

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    Ok, just when I thought I had covered all the possible views...

    What problem did you have with the general view?
    That is what I believed before I believed in the particular view.

    It is the view that the atonement was sufficient for all but effective for those that believe.
    It is limited only by those who reject Christ.
     
  12. webdog

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    The problem I have is with "potential". Christ didn't "potentially" atone for sin, He did. It is only applied to those who are in Him.
     
  13. jdlongmire

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    :thumbsup:

    There is no "potential" in God.
     
  14. PK

    PK
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    Here another you forgot:
    "At whatever time are we baptized, we are washed and purified once for the whole life" (Institutes, IV) - John Calvin
    "By baptism we are ingrafted into the body of Christ.. infants are to be baptized... children of Christians, as they are immediately on their birth received by God as heirs of the covenant, are also to be admitted to baptism" (Institutes, IV) - John Calvin
     
  15. Dale-c

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    I don't think Calvin would call this the atonement though.
    Calvin was a great theologian but I think he was flat wrong in the area of paedobaptism.
    But again, I don't think it is accurate to say this was Calvin's view on the atonement.

    BUt since I have not ever read much of Calvin, I can't really speak exactly what he believes.
     
  16. Dale-c

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    I actually agree that it was accomplish and then it is applied in time to us that believe.
    But how can you say it is anything but potential if the number is not secure?
     
  17. ReformedBaptist

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    Hey, we are up by two!!! Whoohoo! :thumbs:
     
  18. Dale-c

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    Tied now. We may go in to extra innings :)

    I am interested to see that two people picked that all sins were atoned except unbelief.

    I knew there were those who believed that but I had never met any that did.
     

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