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Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Justified, Aug 28, 2003.
How far reaching is it?
And how would it pertain to the Church and it's families?
Go down to the fifth commandment for Barry's and my thoughts about it.
I'm posting that section of what you and Barry wrote:
Is there any time that this commandment can be broken? Or, not to put it in a way to be asking if it's ok to sin, is there a time in which this shouldn't or cannot be followed?
I can't see in Scripture where this command can be not be followed. I know that there are references to children (even adult children) that haven't honored their parents, but that was done in sin, by some sinful people.
We did try to differentiate between the idea of obeying and honoring. And between respect and honoring to some extent as well. When one is young, obedience to one's parents is pretty much a requirement in most families. I'm not sure that is negotiable. And, obviously, when one is grown, one is responsible for one's own decisions although, as most of us have learned, the wisdom and advice in various areas that come from our elders is not to be regarded lightly.
But honoring is something else. Clearly, when you obey your parents you are honoring them. Clearly, when you respect your parents you are honoring them. But there is more implied in the commandment when we looked at the Hebrew. The word is 'kabad' or 'kabed', depending on where you look, and it comes from a root word meaning to make heavy! To honor someone, then, is to accept the load of them, to be burdened by them in some sense or another. Publicly, this would imply never speaking harshly about them or bringing their name into disrepute, but even more it implies accepting the care for them in their old age! Elderly parents can become a burden, and just as we were a burden to them in our early years and they accepted that (usually!), so we are commanded to honor, or accept the burden of them in their later years.
It is quite possible to have a parent one cannot respect for one reason or another. Immorality, drug addiction, gossip, whatever...Nevertheless, this person is still a parent and it is a command from the Lord not to speak ill of the parent and not to abandon them, but to accept the burden of them. I know this can cause an enormous amount of resentment in our secular Western culture, as we want 'our independence' when our own children are grown. But God does not promote that kind of selfishness. We are still part of a family, and blood is supposed to run thicker than water!
For Christian parents, the care of them can be a joy and a true blessing to the whole family. For non-Christian parents being cared for by a Christian child, it can be very difficult for the child, but that also may be the last testimony possible for the parent.
I don't see where there are any exceptions to this biblically. Of course if your parents are in Italy or China or someplace thousands of miles away, maybe the most that can be done is to send monetary support, but some effort should be made to accept the burden of them in any case.
So, then, what about "so called" Brother & Sisters in the Lord, and "so called" "friends" that know our Biblical stands, and advise & corrupt one of your children, to turn against parents & sibelings?
OH! Forgot one-GOD!
Don't understand the meaning in your second post at all. In the first one, if the parents have taught their children the full Bible, it will be much harder for anyone to corrupt them. Not that that doesn't happen, but when it does, there is nothing you can do about it, really, except perhaps point out the truth. The most telling thing you could have done was to care for your own parents and explain to the children why this is so important at that time.
But, in the long run, we cannot help what is done to us. It is how we respond that we are held accountable for.
Helen, it goes back to the 1st post.
As long as you're asleep, I won't disturb you...
I think I've answered what I can.
I took care of my mother in my home when she got older and unable to take care of herself.
We teach by example. I used to tell my children, watch how I take care of Grandma. That is how I would like to be taken care of...
What about the "child" that made a decission to go against her parents and follow the false teachings of the church and some of it's people?
The 5th Commandment, as well as all the others, are binding upon everyone.
Can they be broken? Of course they can. We break at least one of them every day!
Can we be forgiven? Of course we can. We should ask for forgiveness every day (more than once in most of our lives)!
Or the parents who decided to go against their adult child?
Maybe the church is not teaching false doctrine at all, but maybe it is the parents who won't take a good look at themselves and just need something or someone else to blame.
Seems to me that if you love your child no matter WHAT you stand by them and help them. Sometimes it means letting go. Even if the turn out is not what YOU had planned, but who's to say it isn't what God had planned?
You don't accuse a church and it's members of false doctrine and corruptability just because it doesn't agree with your "opinion".
God has a plan for everyone, even the adult child that serves the Lord and wants to continue to serve Him.
I think I have said enough. I don't want to rock the boat to people I used to think very highly of.
But I will say this, no matter how "bad" my children may be or not be, they are MY CHILDREN! Period, end of story. They will always be My children, and I will stand by them no matter what.
I'm with you all the way on this one Laura. I have always stood by my children and I always will.
That does not mean I will stand UP for what they did wrong; but I will always love and stand BY them...no matter what!
I am Blessed,
"That does not mean I will stand UP for what they did wrong; but I will always love and stand BY them...no matter what! "
I was just wondering how to not stand up for them while you still stood by them. How do you do this? I understand the "always love them" part.
My mother has attended church 4 times in the last 30 plus years. She didn't want us to adopt Nick when our daughter didn't want to raise him. (My mother is VERY selfish and said Nick would 'ruin' my life.) She would have had me divorce my husband over financial issues many years ago. I did what I felt led by God to do and my choices and blessings have been a testimony to my mother of God's goodness, faithfulness and blessings galore. BTW... my mother has admitted she was wrong on all those 'urgings'.
If my mother needs care, we'll most gladly care for her. She's 71 and very healthy but lives in Fla. far away from any relatives and says she prefers to be alone. She's not a person who likes people and she is quite well to do so can financially do better than most of all of us.
Yes! We have to love our children.
Even love them enough to tell them when they are wrong.
Even love them enough to let them go from the family, keeping the leaven from spreading through the rest of the family.
But! To stand by them when they are doing wrong?
That's not "LOVE"! That's "STUPIDITY"!
Olive: By not standing UP for them, I am not condoning what they did wrong. I am not trying to save them from punishment. By standing BY them, I am not turning my back on them and I am still loving them...no matter what.
I am God's child. He will always love me. When I do something wrong, He does not condone it and stand UP for me or spare me punishment. But I know He will never turn His back on me, therefore He is standing BY me.
Justified: You called it stupidity for me to feel this way. Do you feel God is stupid because He does the same for His children as I do for mine?
I feel there is a problem here; possibly with one of your children? Maybe you are looking at the circumstances through that situation...
Nothing is harder than to have a child go the wrong direction. It is the most heartbreaking feeling in the world, and yes, I speak from personal experience.
Imagine how God feels, having so much more compassion than we do, I'm sure He is hurting much more for his strayed children than we are for ours.
I'm sorry. But, I choose not to stand by anyone who willingly disobeys God and His Word.
And in the Old Testament, they stoned the child, that was rebellious and would not submit to God's Word, then hanged them on a tree.
That might cause great pain to stand by them then!
OH! Wait a minute! It was the parents that brought their rebellious child before the elder's of the city.
Or maybe I should stand by their side, as my child murders people, or terrorizes them.
I don't think so!
I'm glad God doesn't feel that way or all the backsliders would be doomed. We all sin everyday. I'm so thankful God's love is unconditional.
It sounds like you are torn about something and more than just a little angry. Is that not a sin?