70 weeks described in Dan. 11

antiaging:
"Everlasting righteousness has certainly not happened to Israel as a nation, nor for the rest of the world for that matter. It will happen when Christ returns and Satan is bound a thousand years. "

GE
For sure, everlasting righteousness has certainly not happened to Israel as a nation, nor for most of the rest of the world for that matter. Tragedie is, it won't happen when Christ returns. "Today if you hear His Voice, harden not your heart" "For He shall NOT speak of another day after that" DAY OF CHRIST, WHILE, Satan is bound a thousand years. When Christ comes again, satan shall be set loose and mislead everyone not "in Christ" into the lake of fire and brimstone, when he will take death with him into it. In that day it will be too late.

 

While it is true that your view does elimate the Messiah from the greatest Messianic prophecy in the OT -- the great 490 year timeline predicting the start of the Messiah's ministry - His death on the Cross AND the prediction of Dan 9 seen to be fulfilled in Heb 10 where "the offerings and sacrifices were put to an end" through his ONCE FOR ALL atoning sacrifice.

It is not true that my view would make such a gross error.

That is the one thing we both agree on.

in Christ,

Bob

 

GE
At least I do not have 'my way of reading' the text which is directly contradicting the text. I attribute to Christ the making desolate the abomination. It seems you make Christ the great loser?

 

Daniel 9:27 in the middle of the week He will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering;

Here we do not see "the covenant ended" - rather the covenant is strengthened for the full 7 years. What we see is that the sacrifices of the OT Hebrew nation church - end in the middle of the week. Letting “the Bible interpret the Bible” we see the Bible explaining the Messianic work of Dan 9 in Heb 10.THe Messiah's atoning sacrifice brings about the end of sacrifices. So DID the Messiah put a STOP to sacrifices and offerings (from God’s POV) when He came – but only in the midst of the week (3.5 years into His ministry)?

Heb 10
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, "" SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME;
6 IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE.
...
9 then He said, "" BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL.'' He takes away the first in order to establish the second.
10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
...
16 "" THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,'' He then says,
17 "" AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.''
18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Heb 7
12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.
13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.
...
19 (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

 

I don't see how one can put 'Christ' and 'abomination' in one sentence without several negatives.


Daniel 9:25 ((TNIV = Today's NIV /Zondervan 2006/ ) :
Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.'

Sorry, clear as a bell, restore command to the Anointed One - 7+62=69 'sevens'.

Romans 10:14 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003 / ) :

14 But how can they call on Him in whom they have not believed?

The pronoun 'Him' starts with a capital 'H' indicating a member of the Blessed Trinity is to whom the the pronoun referrs. This is done in the HCSB to honor members of the Diety.


References to Messiah are underlined; references to the Anti-messiah are bolded. The small 'h' in 'he' gives the main clues:

Daniel 9:26-27
After those 62 weeks
the Messiah will be cut off
and will have nothing.

The people of the coming prince
will destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end will come with a flood,
and until the end there will be war;
desolations are decreed.
27 He will make a firm covenant
with many for one week,
but in the middle of the week
he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering.
And the abomination of desolation
will be on a wing of the temple
until the decreed destruction
is poured out on the desolator.

As far as I can determine "after the 62 weeks" means before the 70th Week begins. I find no other timed prophecy that put two splits into the timing sequence. That makes this prophecy different. BTW, misunderstanding this prophecy as shown above leaves holes in the rest of the prophecy. The pause between the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th week is a sign of the rejection of Christ by the Jews. But even with the split, God's promise to save the Jews will be kept. God keeps the promises He makes

God's plan is real good. At the mid-Tribulation crises, the Antichrist (who has deceived the Jews to this point) will go into the temple and and end the daily sacrifice. Millions of Jews will see that the Antichirst is NOT their Messiah.l They will see the truthabout the rejected Messiah Jesus, call Jesus Messiah (confess Jesus as Lord while believing that Christi raised Him from the Dead) -- Millions of individual Jews will be saved the day that the Antichrist commits the AoD (Abomation of Desolation). Prior to about 1930 this could not be understood - or more like 1938 when the first TV station opened in New York City. All people will see the Antichrist on TV enter the Temple, and declare himself as God. It all fits the other parts of the Bible prophecies - the gentile gap in a Jewish/Israeli timeline. How long is the gap? One Thousand, Nine Hundred and Seventy-Five years AT LEAST. Yep, 2008 is the 1,975th (could be a few more) since the Messiah was cut off.

-Ed Edwards,
waiting patiently with full HOPE for the signless Coming of Jesus to get me and take me to heaven

P.S.
-----------------------
2c. the mid-tribulation events
(these items are not necessarily in time sequence)

2c1. The Little Scroll (Rev 10)
2c2. AC killed (Rev 13:3)
2c3. Satan cast out of heaven (Rev 12:7,9)
2c4. Resurrection of AC (Rev 13:3,4)
2c5. 3 kings killed, 7 submit to AC
2c6. destruction by AC of false church completed (Rev 7:16)
2c7. Death/resurrection of two witnesses
2c8. Worship of the AC starts (Rev 13:3,4,8 )
2c9. Rise of the False Prophet completed (Rev 13:11-15)
2c10. MOB=mark of the beast initiated (Rev 13:16-18 )
2c11. 7-year covenant broken (Isaiah 28:18; Daniel 11:41)
2c12. AOD=abomination of Desolation ----- (Daniel 9:27; Matthew 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:4)
2c13. Persecution of the Jews begins ----- (Rev 12:1-6)

 

In Dan 9 and in Heb 10 -- God's Word tells us that Messiah the Prince of Peace puts a stop to sin offerings and sacrifices --

But those who INSERT GAPS into the 490 year timeline - imagine that the antichrist does it instead. Not too surprising since they also insert massive gaps of "yet to be defined time" into the 490 year timeline.

Dan 9 says "70 weeks are determined" - seventy weeks of years -- 490 yers -- pretty clear for all to read.

And all scholars agree that this 490 year timeline predicts the time of the first coming of Christ. They all agree that if we leave it as it is stated - and do not inserts massive GAPS of "yet to be defined time" into it -- then the 490 years terminate long before 70 A.D

Couldnt be any easier.

in Christ,

Bob

 

I did not turn 11 years of age until after I turned the age of 10. Seems like 11 comes after Ten to me..

Looks like 70 comes after 69 when you read Dan 9 in the same way that it appears that 8 comes right after the 7th week in Dan 9.

Couldn't be any easier.

in Christ,

Bob

 

// ... all scholars agree ... //

I doubt that ever happens.

//Dan 9 says "70 weeks are determined" - seventy weeks of years -- 490 yers -- pretty clear for all to read.//

But it is the only time line in the Bible that I know of which also mentions parts:

--- first 7 'sevens'
Dan 9:25

--- second 62 'sevens'
Dan 9:25
Dan 9:26 - at the end Messiah comes

--- last 'seven' & the middle of the last 'seven' (the 70th 'seven')
Dan 9:27

//In Dan 9 and in Heb 10 -- God's Word tells us that Messiah the Prince of Peace puts a stop to sin offerings and sacrifices --//

Show me word for word from the scripture.
I don't find either. First, Dan 9 is generally a prophecy and what it tells is what will happen (from Daniel's viewpoint)

Second, Hebrews 10 is talking about the sacrifices of saved people NOT OF UNSAVED JEWS. I have no need for additional sin offerings - there are other people in the world who think they have a need.

Why does Ezekiel 40-44 (5 chapters) talk about a temple that has yet to be built? Why does Ezekiel talk about giving of sacrifices? Sorry, God has NOT taken away His promises He made in the Old Testament. One's theories of eschatology need to include Ezekiel 40-44 somewhere.

(you are making a pretty picture of the future, but you have some parts left over :laugh: )

 

Where in the above verses does it indicate that the Jewish people will believe that the Antichrist is Messiah? All that I see is that he will sign a treaty with many people. This does not indicate that Jews will consider him to be the Messiah.

Again, how is it that the Jewish nation will even consider the antichrist as a messiah when he is a Gentile? After all, the above scripture does indicate that he is the "Prince to come" of the people that destroy Herod's Temple at Jerusalem in 70ad.

 

If you insert a GAP of thousands of years of "yet to be defined time" between the 7-weeks (49 years) of Dan 9 and the 62-weeks of years -- then "the Messiah STILL has not come".

NO 490 year timeline or 70 year timeline or 2300 year timeline will survive such abuse.

in Christ,

Bob

 

In reference to Daniel 9:26b-27 Brother Palatka51 says:

//Where in the above verses does it indicate that the Jewish people will believe that the Antichrist is Messiah? All that I see is that he will sign a treaty with many people. This does not indicate that Jews will consider him to be the Messiah.//

Nowhere in that verse. However, it can be logically concluded from things said in the whole Bible. All the saved Gentiles (and their Church Age Messanic Jews) will be raptured/resurrected out of the world at the start of the Tribulation period, Daniel's 70th 'Seven' (or week). This removal means there will be Jews not saved Gentiles around to welcom the Antichrist. "Christ" is a Greek term meaning "chosen one of God". "Antichrist" then means 'not chosen of God'. Of course the Jews will be the one who believes the 'Antichrist' is the Messiah.

The 70th week of Daniel is about Jews, not Gentiles.

 

I guess you missed that part in your hurry to repeat the same lame arguments you always have.

Dan 9:25 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
Knowe therefore and vnderstande, that from the going foorth of the commandement to bring againe the people, and to builde Ierusalem, vnto Messiah the prince, shall be seuen weekes and threescore and two weekes, and the streete shalbe built againe, and the wall euen in a troublous time.

Along came Messiah the prince EXACTLY 69 complete 'sevens' after the commandment to build Ierusalem -- just as the prophecy said. The decree went out in 487BC and 7x69=487 years later on 1 Jan AD 0001* - right on schedule Jesus the Messiah was circumcised & made a Jewish human person (not to be confused with gentile goy non-human persons).

Jesus was not crucified 3½-years into His ministry (more like two years);
Jesus was not resurrected 3½-years before the destruction of Jerusalm (more like AD70-AD33=37 /not 40/ ) .
Daniel's 70th week has been delayed for the time it takes the Gentile Church to get it's full number (which number only God the Father knows).


*note on the Birthday of Jesus. Jesus was born on the first day of His life on what we could call 25 Dec 0001BC. On the 8th day of His life (01 Jan AD 0001) Jesus was circumcised as required by the Law of Moses.

 

Palatka51:
"Where in the above verses does it indicate that the Jewish people will believe that the Antichrist is Messiah? All that I see is that he will sign a treaty with many people. This does not indicate that Jews will consider him to be the Messiah."

GE
Indeed!
These people seem to never have read Acts 28:25b-28!
"Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people (Israel to the flesh) is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed, lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heel them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles: An they, will, hear!

But be assured, there are those not of Israel after the flesh, who are just so, forever rejected by God, for no other reason than here mentioned. John calls them the 'luke warm'. They are they who claim to 'have the light'! They are all over. Their own doctrines they have made their belly, to worship it as were it God or Christ.

 

I must make an apology which I was not asked to make; I saw my mistake myself. I misunderstood Ed Edwards for saying Christ did the abomination of desolation. I was wrong.
But it doesn't mean He will only do so in future, because He had done with desolating the abomination when he triumphed through cross and resurrection: "ONCE FOR ALL"!

 

GE

And you talk of BobRyan's 'lame arguments! It's a joke!

These three last 'arguments' of yours e.g., where on earth will one find easier to demolish -- to lay desolate the abomination? Ed Edwards, you haven't passed Kindergarten yet!

 

GE says:

Thank you Brother GE for the nice verse. That says so much better what I was trying to say. After the time of the Gentiles, the Church Age, God will win all the Gentiles He wants and then 'all Israel will be saved" (God's promise in NT).

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Romans 11:25 TNIV = Today's New International Version (Zondervan, 2006)

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not think you are superior: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

God's plan for Jesus to save the Jews is via the Gentiles - that is where we are today: wating until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. Then shall the Day of the Lord (when Messiah Jesus intervenes in the affairs of Mankind -- the Tribulation Period, the 70th Week of Daniel.

- -Ed
Maranatha! - Even so, Come Lord Jesus!


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