8yr old girl denied Holy Communion

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Ps104_33, Aug 13, 2004.

  1. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
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    If the priest can change the element into the body of Christ, what difference does it make what the element is?


    story
     
  2. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene
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    Well, I suppose the corresponding tradition for us would be someone who could not, for medical reasons, be immersed in water and yet wished to join our church. What would WE do in such a case?

    One big difference, of course, is that we would in no way suggest the member's spiritual state was in any way impaired; baptism being purely a symbolic act. But will we hold back church membership in this case? Forbid the partaking of communion because the believer is unbaptized?
     
  3. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore
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    Actually this is more of a problem for Lutherans and Primitive Baptists who take seriously Jesus words, "This do", than for Roman Catholics who ignore the Lord's command. Roman Catholics allow communicants to receive the cup in lieu of the host; whereas, Lutherans and Baptists believe communicants should receive both the bread and the cup. Since there is strong evidence that Christ used unleavened wheat bread and grape wine at the first supper, pastors should also use these elements.
     
  4. mioque

    mioque
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    Seems rather obvious, she will have to drink the wine instead of eating the bread.
     
  5. The Galatian

    The Galatian
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    Since Christ is in both the wine and the bread, it should be no problem at all.

    It's puzzling why the girl's mother hasn't realized this.
     
  6. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
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    Yes, but when an individual accepts Christ's death as an atonement for his soul, baptism and the Lord's supper are acts of obedience and not necessary for salvation, but what does the future hold for a Roman Catholic who neglects baptism and the mass?

    And my original question is what difference does it make what the element is if:

    1. It is symbolic in nature

    2. The priest has the power to change the element into the literal body of Christ?
     
  7. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore
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    I can only speculate. Perhaps, the mother doesn't want her child to receive the tiny semblence of alcohol in a sip of the blood of Christ or she doesn't fully understand or accept her church's doctrine of concomittance.
     
  8. mioque

    mioque
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    This I copied from another board. I'm not commenting on it.

    I'm Catholic and I had no idea this rule existed. I'm sure it's there so that churches have to use some form of bread as communion, and can't do whatever zany promotional stunt they want:

    "The popcorn of Christ..." "Amen."
    "The crab dip of Christ..." "Amen."
    "The Almond Joy of Christ..." "Amen."
     
  9. Melanie

    Melanie
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    There is a great deal of disagreement within the Roman Catholic Church since Vatican 2 when it was infected with ecumenicism, masons and other non believers.

    Mioque's communique is illustrative of such. Please note I am not having a go at Mioque for this report, it is endemic of the RCC as seen by many.

    It represents the systematic abuses within the church and is deeply offensive to Catholics who hold with the Holy Mass prior to vatican 2.The Communion is never accepted by the laity in the hand nor is there ever a circumstance where communion is received as two matters. It mocks the sacrament of the Eucharist, it is a foul mockery!

    For Baptists it is as offensive as if the Bible was written on waste paper or the place of worship was despoiled. It is all one!
     
  10. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore
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    I don't agree with either 1. the symbolism of the Primitive Baptists or 2. the transubstantiation of the Latin Rite Roman Catholics. Nevertheless, I believe both denominations are doing the right thing by insisting that the same elements that Jesus used in the first supper be used whenever the Lord's Supper is celebrated. It is, after all, the Lord's Supper not our snack.
     
  11. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore
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    double post
     
  12. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
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    I am in total agreement with you John. I think that unleavened bread and grapejuice should be used also. My question is if those elements for whatever reason cannot be had would something else be acceptable? After all they are symbolicly the body and blood of Christ. For example, would leavened bread (I've attended churches where leavened bread was used in the Lord's Supper) and cranberry juice be acceptable symbols. I guess my peeve is that some fundamental churches insist that ONLY unleavened bread and grapejuice properly represent the body and blood of Christ. That seems to me to give some power to the elements because only certain ones must be used.
     
  13. mioque

    mioque
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    "I guess my peeve is that some fundamental churches insist that ONLY unleavened bread and grapejuice properly represent the body and blood of Christ."
    ''
    The ultimate irony here is that a couple of churches that have the age the wildest Landmark churches claim for themselves in their wildest dreams, believe that the Last Supper was not a Pesachmeal and deliberately use leavened bread for the Communion.
     
  14. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore
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    Ps104_33,

    It is not the bread and wine but Christ's word alone that causes His body and blood to be present in the Supper; however, when He says, "This do", we should do as He did and not create doubt by using elements that He did not use.

    Historically most Christian churches have used unleavened wheat bread and fermented grape wine. Research has shown that these elements were almost certainly the ones used by Jesus. For example, from the Primitive Baptist FAQ website:

     

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