99.9% of all Catholics Going to Hell

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by GraceSaves, Jul 20, 2003.

  1. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves
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    This is what Dr. Bob Griffen stated on another board. I responded (being forwarded the link), thinking I was on this board. In my responses, which Dr. Bob deleted, I asked him how he claimed not to judge hearts, while he AS A MATTER OF FACT stated that we are almost all going to hell. Here are his words:

    Do I think they are Christian? No. 99.9% are on their way to hell. No question about it.

    I was threated to have my posting abilities taken away, even though I explained that I had misposted and apologized. I forgave Dr. Bob, but that was deleted.

    I just thought that it was interesting that Dr. Bob can condemn me to hell, even though he doens't know me, by saying that I do not know the Lord Jesus. But, at the same time, I am not allowed to post to state my love for the Lord. It's a total double standard, and causes perpetuated ignorance to others reading the thread.

    Does anyone else at BB support this kind of behavior by a moderator? Condemnation of a billion people, disallowing proper recourse?

    In Jesus Name,

    Grant
     
  2. Dr. Bob

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    Grant, you are a guest on the BaptistBoard. That any non-Baptists are allowed to post ANYWHERE on a BaptistBoard is "grace".

    YOU may certainly be born again. I allowed for a small proportion of those actively claiming Catholicism to be truly born again.

    That is my right. Not as a Moderator but as a "Baptist poster on a Baptist board". It is your right to disagree. But not to post on a Baptist Only forum. Normally those forums are of little interest to non-baptists and seldom mention Catholicism.

    But that belief (while maybe 99.9% was MY choice and would not be that of others) is MY belief. I have started a thread to discuss that. Years ago I rejected Catholicism personally as a choice for me.
     
  3. GraceSaves

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    Bob,

    I visit the general Baptists forums quite often to see what discussions I am not allowed to participate in. There are always a Catholic thread or two. Right now there are at least three overtly Catholic threads in that board alone (two by you, and one about attending Mass).

    And no, I am not free to disagree where it matters. You would not even be looking at this right now if I had not accidentally posted. I'd disagree with you in a PM and no one else would have the opportunity to see it.

    But, whatever, Bob. I'm already guilty until proven innocent.

    Good night; I'm sorry I bothered looking at all this.
     
  4. Yelsew

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    Well Dr. Bob, If 99.9% is not the right number what would you say is the right percentage of Catholics that are not going to heaven?

    Of course, we all know it will be an educated guess, because one doesn't get to use the title Dr. unless one is educated.
     
  5. Gina B

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    I'm curious as to the Catholic view of the fate of those who know about the Catholic church and deny that it is Christian and/or the one true church. Do they have much of a chance of escaping hell?
    Gina
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Cute, Yelsew. But you are 100% right. It is just an "educated" guess since I cannot look into the heart and soul of all 6.2 billion people on earth.

    But it is educated. Based on knowledge and experience we make such deductions. For instance, there are about 50 million baptists in the world. Baptist teach/preach and demand fidelity to salvation by faith alone by grace alone, without rite, ritual, creed, tradition, etc. You know that.

    Also to be a "baptist" you must be old enough to make this a personal decision. No babies, infants or little ones. Are 100% of baptists "truly born again"? No.

    From education and experience, I would say about 75-80% probably are.

    Hindus? I cannot imagine .00000001 being truly born again.

    You get the pix. Just an educated guess.
     
  7. DHK

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    I tend to agree with Dr. Bob's assessment. The 99% figure is probably accurate enough, and that has nothing to do with judging hearts, but rather theology and religious systems, as he said. I very rarely accept a person's testimony at face value--at least not right away. There has been plenty of examples of that on this forum. But for sake of a non-speific one, if a Mormon were to tell me that he was saved, I would not believe him. The reason? They serve a different Jesus than I do--one born out of a union between a god and a godess from a different planet, and a Jesus that is a created being. That Jesus can't save anyone.

    If you are involved in a religious system which involves works as part of your salvation, then how can you be saved, if the Bible teaches that it is all through grace, by faith?
    Works cannot save.

    There are certain elements to one's belief system which determine whether or not he may be saved, or even have the possibility of being saved, unless he is willing to give up those beliefs.
    DHK
     
  8. Singer

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    DK:

    When my Mormon son in law and I sit at a dinner table and say "Grace",
    I doubt very much that his mind is on a being from another planet . We
    pray to God...the creator of Heaven and Earth.

    It will be interesting to get to know the insights of his Mormon mother who is
    quite active. So far; so good. She called me a "Bad Boy" for beating up on Catholics.
    She's displaying a true spirit of love I'd say. Could she possibly have the Holy
    Spirit in her?.......sure she could. The spirit is poured out upon each who believe that
    Jesus rose from the dead. My Mormon sister believe that too.

    Imagine my 2 yr old grandson who also sits at that table with his little hands
    folded and watching his Mormon dad and unchurched Grandpa pray. He isn't
    being influenced into believing in a god from a different planet that was a creation
    of a goddess.....he's just basically being taught to acknowledge God.
     
  9. Don

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    And Singer, the error with what you posted lies within scripture: Even the devils believe, and tremble.

    Not saying your son-in-law or his son are devils, but that it's one thing to acknowledge God...it's another to really know who He is.
     
  10. WPutnam

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    I will attempt an answer here.

    Do you have a copy of THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH?

    I quote from that publication:

    838. "'The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.'[LG 15.] Those 'who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.'[UR 3.] With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound 'that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist.'[Paul VI, Discourse, December 14, 1975; cf. UR 13-18.]"

    This presumes a sublime innocence on the the part of those who dismiss the Catholic faith out of ignorance or proper understanding.

    It also demonstrates that even the Authoritive Church does not know the heart of the individual person, even to non-Christians in fact. Only God can judge, or, "judge not least ye be judged." (from memory)

    Hope that helps! [​IMG]

    Hi to Dr.Bob Griffin! It's been a coons age! [​IMG]

    God bless,

    PAX

    Bill+†+


    - Anima Christi -

    Soul of Christ, sanctify me.
    Body of Christ, save me.
    Blood of Christ, inebriate me.
    Water from the side of Christ, wash me.
    Passion of Christ, strengthen me.
    O good Jesus, hear me;
    Within Thy wounds hide me and permit
    me not to be separated from Thee.
    From the Wicked Foe defend me.
    And bid me to come to Thee,
    That with Thy Saints I may praise Thee,
    For ever and ever. Amen.
     
  11. Brother Adam

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    I would like to add to Bills post.

    I do not believe that the Catholic Church is the "one true Church" and disagree with many of its teachings. However, Catholic teaching does not state that I'm going to hell because of that.

    However, if I believed that the Catholic Church was the one true Church, and rejected it, I would in effect be rejecting Christ because of the Churches teachings on Christ being the only way to heaven. And if I reject Jesus Christ, I can't make it to heaven.

    That's my understanding, feel free to correct me if I'm off on that Bill.
     
  12. Logan

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    So your saying the babies, infants or little kids are not going to heaven if they die since they cannot not make a "personal decision?"
     
  13. Singer

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    Don....it makes me wonder who has the right to quote that verse about devils
    believing. Everyone seems to use it against others to prove that someone has
    the wrong kind of faith. Does anyone really know what it means? How would one
    suggest to ''bring them up in the ways of the Lord" (children) without being guilty
    of "the devils believe and tremble" syndrome.

    Everyone is at a different level of belief at some stage. I've seen people rather
    nod in agreement when presented with the gospel story, others just smile or make
    a negative facial expression....or a joke out of it. Still others will say "Amen Brother"
    which tells me that they expressly believe already. But it's something to work with and
    it doesn't seem they should be put in the catagory of "the devils believe" syndrome.

    Most who point that verse out seem to be defending their own denomination or their
    own set of beliefs.

    As for my grandson, he does not have the ability at 2 yrs old to comprehend the
    difference between God the creator and some imaginary god of a false gospel.

    When he hears "God", he will learn that we are referring to our creator. My
    Mormon son in law (his father) believes in God the creator as you and I do.

    The verse:
    Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also
    believe, and tremble.


    Possibly that verse does not mean what people make of it.
    It says we ''do well'' to believe in one God.
    But, we do not fear and tremble because of our belief whereas the devils do.
    Maybe that's all it means. It is used in an accusatory way. It may not be referring
    to a separation in someone's "How To" theory of what to believe. My grandson
    should grow to believe as his dad and I do.....in one God.

    A bible commentary had this to say concerning the verse:

    c. The fallacy of faith without works is demonstrated by the
    demons, who have a "dead" faith in God (an acknowledgment of
    His existence and attributes) themselves - but is a source of fear
    instead of salvation for them


    The context of the verse came out of a discussion about dead faith and
    not as a tool to use in accusing others of having a faith in God that is wrong.
     
  14. Logan

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    Greetings DHK, its been awhile....

    But such an astonishing statement has everything to do with judging hearts. Going by the "faith alone" theory that you adhere to, it is the heart that God, and only God, is able to judge(Hebrews 4:12). Not you or I and not even Dr. Bob. God is the only True Judge to see if one has true faith or has just been giving "lip service" (Matthew 7:21-23).
    I think "true" believers in Jesus Christ need to stick to spreading His word and following The Great Commission and leave the decision on who is going to hell up to the only Just Judge, Jesus Christ.

    God Bless....
     
  15. Justified Saint

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    I am going to hell?? :eek: :eek:

    I thought hell was only for those who don't believe in the name of the Jesus Christ the Lord.

    "Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." John 3:18

    Hmm, I see your point though, maybe I don't really believe in Jesus Christ. I mean you guys know my heart a lot better than I do and surely much better than God.
     
  16. BrianT

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    I agree it seems unfair, but the rules of the board are such that non-Baptists are not allowed to post in certain forums. I don't think it's so much about censorship (after all, you ARE allowed recourse in THIS forum).

    As for his statements about 99.9%, I find that totally appalling, for several reasons (most of which you have already been discussing). Although his view is all too common in Baptist circles, you will find Baptists that strongly disagree with that statement. Dr. Bob will be very surprised when he gets to heaven.... [​IMG]
     
  17. Dr. Bob

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    Yo, Bill, it HAS been a long time since I've had any dialog with you.

    And LOVE John Michael Talbot's song. One of my favorite singers.

    I know my view seems harsh and unloving, but I am trusting that the RC who post on the BaptistBoard (a unique blend of folks quite atypical of my personal Catholic friends) to see my concern, not my condemnation.
     
  18. Dr. Bob

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    Good question, but for another discussion. I was simply stating that when counting people who are "Baptist" would be vastly different than the method of counting "Catholic".

    You cannot be a "Baptist" without a personal profession of faith and immersion. You can be a Catholic simply by being christened as an infant.

    Thanks for allowing me to clarify that.
     
  19. Brother Adam

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    I know alot of Baptists who don't agree with baptism at all. Its just not for them. But they have faith in Jesus Christ, so they don't have to be baptized, because they are going to heaven anyway.
     
  20. Yelsew

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    Dr. Bob said,
    What knowledge do you have that such a minute number of Catholics actually made it to heaven? Do you have baptist bean counters checking the gates of Heaven to see how many Catholics are admitted?

    What experience do you possess that allows you to unequivocably say that a meer 1 tenth of one percent of all catholics who have died have actually been seen running around heaven?

    The point is you have neither of these things you say you have that leads you to conclude as you have. You are basing what you say on heresay gossip from others who are as closeminded as you yourself are. You cannot know the heart of man, you cannot know or measure the faith of another. You must rely on testamony and because the Catholics do not "learn" to give their testamony in the same manner that Baptists "learn" to give their testamony you conclude that Catholics are not saved in either the same manner or the same relative numbers that baptists are saved. What a shameful and dispicable position you put yourself in.

    No, I am not a catholic supporter, but for cryin' out loud Bob, you had better open you holier-than-thou eyes and see that the baptists do not have a corner on God's salvation either. There are 6 1/2 Billion people on the earth, and being quite generous, only 5 hundred million Baptists. You do the math. You will find the ratio pretty slim. We all have a lot of work to do to harvest the souls that need to be harvested.
     

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