A Biblical Understanding of Sin

HP: I see Saul as a clear exception. Who can testify that before they became a Christian they kept the law blameless? Who could stand before the religious leaders as Paul did and testify as he did? Ac 23:1 ¶ And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.” That I would see as a clear exception.

As to Paul hearing the gospel? Only God knows. Obviously he had heard of Christ, but it would seem to me that he might not have actually heard the gospel message at all. I believe he was simply ignorant of the true gospel. He thought he was ‘of the faith.’ To him there was no other gospel. The idea was totally foreign to him as a devout Jew. They ‘were the chosen.’ To them there was ‘no other way conceivable.’ The patriarchs were not part of any other religion. The Jewish religion was ‘it.’ The gospel coming from a bunch of Gentiles, and those outside of or that had renounced the ‘only True and Living God of Moses, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? How preposterous to believe any other gospel could come from God than what Judaism believed and taught! To even entertain such a notion was tantamount to rejection of the Only True and Living God in his eyes, i.e., Jehovah God of the Jews.

HP: I would say that God did not overlook any past sins, for as far as I read Scripture and his own testimony there were none to overlook. Once God gave him additional light, NOW, IN RETROSPECT, there was sin imputed to his former actions. Now there was need to repent and seek forgiveness, and he did.

HP: I hope that I am not just blind to what you see, but I see no ‘proof’ offered by the text that would indicate anything about God imputing sin to any of Paul’s action prior to God’s private talk with him. I do see sin imputed to his actions only in retrospect, with the new light God gave him. No knowledge, no sin, is the Scriptural principle. Sin is not imputed where there is no law. Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

 

Hi Gekko,
You mention too many verses to even start to respond in a post to them all. Each one presents a whole different scope of ideas. Let me just take the first one for now. Romans 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

This verse says that sin entered the world by one man. Now that is simple enough. That death came by sin, now it becomes a bit more complex. Is Scripture saying that physical death came by sin, or the timing of it? Is there any indication in Scripture that Adam would have not have seen physical death or at least a cessation of physical life such as being translated like Enoch or Elijah if in fact he had never sinned? Adam was created as a mortal human being. Mortals must put on immortality, according to Scripture, in order to take on an eternal existence. That would incur a change from the physical to the spiritual. The necessitated cessation of a physical existence could be termed as physical death could it not?

I believe that the death spoken of here must then be speaking of spiritual death, not physical death. (Now for all of you holding to the literal payment theory, here is a thought for you. If Christ literally took upon himself the penalty of sin, and that penalty included physical death, why do Christians still die? More over, why will some not see death in the rapture? How could have Christ literally paid for something that still is occurring with Christians ? ) (Please forgive this sidetrack from the issue of this thread. No one ned respond to that issue here, just food for thought )

Due to the fact of those in the rapture, and Enoch and Elijah not seeing physical death as we know it, this verse cannot be speaking of physical death, but rather spiritual; death. The death spoken of is said to pass upon ALL men that have sinned, not just some. Spiritual death indeed passed upon all men at the point of sin. You decide for yourselves the truth of this matter.

This particular verse also states clearly WHY this spiritual death has passed upon all men, and it does not say because of original sin, or Adam’s sin. It states BECAUSE ‘ALL HAVE SIINED.’

 

The nature of sin, as we have seen on many other threads as of late, is indeed important. The issue of original sin has been raised. Would someone like to show how the notion of original sin is in any way consistent with the definitions and illustrations of sin in Scripture? I am simply asking for those that might believe in original sin to document where and how such a notion is consistent with other clear passages in Scripture informing us as to the definition(s) of sin.

 

I wish to thank everyone that has been involved in this thread for their participation. I am going to have to apply myself to some other tasks at hand and will not be able to keep up the level of involvement I have had in the past. I hope to be able to respond at least a little in the future.

May God richly bless each and every one of you!! Until we meet again, may the peace of God dwell within each and everyone richly!

Heavenly Pilgrim