A Brave New World is Here and Now!

That still does not change the fact that the ultimate source of your standard of accreditation is the federal government. What kind of standard is that?

 

You are simply mistaken. Don't misunderstand me--I'm no proponent of the federal government's ability to do much right! However, the government does not accredit.

The problem is that there are many bogus, fly-by-night accrediting agencies which allow schools to claim they have met a standard which is, in fact, no standard. Unsuspecting students think they are getting an accredited degree and find only when it's too late that they've been deceived. Agencies that certify accrediting agencies---the DOE and the Council for Higher Education Accreditation---merely assert that an accrediting agency is legitimate.

Again, accreditation is a minimal standard. If a school cannot attain this minimal standard, are we supposed to think they provide a superior education?

Bill

 

Understanding of accreditation

The federal government does not set accreditation standards. Accreditation is by private agencies, which set the standards. Although I would constest the ability of any secular agency to set standards for doctrinal matters, I do recognize that they can set academic standards. Could you please tell me what standards the federal government sets for accreditation? Could you refer me to the documentation?

 

Some of this dispute may be arising from the fact that the law can "shut down" a bogus school; that is, they can forbid it to grant regular degrees. That's why so many degree mills wind up in Florida: looser laws.

I could tutor a student and write out a certificate of completion in the strictest state in this nation: Master of Pipedudism. But if I tried to call it a Master of Arts, somebody would come calling before long.

 

consistent?

why would I trust a doctor who has an MD from a school accredited by a governmentally approved accreditor to treat my disease or to deliver my wife's child or why would I trust my health to governmentally approved food inspectors or the governmentally approved medical association or why would I drive on highways in which the government had any hand in building in cars that meet governmentally set standards or why would I live my life according to governmentally established law or why would I eat in restaurants which meet government standards... ad infinitum...?

if I do none of these things, then possibly I can convincingly and justfiably argue by my perfect consistency that neither should government approve of educational institutional accreditors...even though I wait in vain to have someone show me how accreditation lowers curricular standards...
but if I do live by the government influencing all my other life, then, where is the logic in saying that schools should not be accredited by those whom the nasty old government has approved..hmmm?

 

No kidding the federal government does not set accreditation. The six regional accrediting agencies get the approval of the Department of Education "as the Secretary deems acceptable." You can pull up the govt web site as well as I can. The standards are there. If the government says a school is not acceptable to the minimum standards as you say, they are not accredited, regardless of the body (one of the six) who do it. Now, if that is your standard, to me, it is low, even if it is minimal. Sometimes good schools cross with accreditation, sometimes they do not.

Did you say your degree with from Northwest Seminary?

 

The logic is that education is the rest of your life. One can aspire to higher standards than the federal government. Maybe you could enroll in Katrina U, or go to a government approved school for being a financial consouler. Oh, and yes, get government approval for your ministry. Common sense goes a long way.

 

I think the fallacy in that reply requires no pointing out.

I also think that in some cases accreditation does not mean that a particular school is better because the school already is good. EG, BJU, I suspect, did not increase the efficiency of its education when it sought and received accreditation by TRACS. And our little school in Salem , IMO, taught well having a faculty as House, Derickson, Wretlind, Stanley, Garlard and others with accredited terminal degrees in the areas of instruction even before we became a teaching site for a TRACS accredited school.

Personally I like the governmentally approved accreditor TRACS. Others may not. If a seminary thinks that its faculty is qualified because it has docs from Bruther Bubba's Bible Skool, it may be unhappy when TRACS say "no," and requires a higher standard. The seminary may reply, "See, government interference."

I would be very interested in responding to an argument that TRACS does not have good, educationally desirable benchmarks for schools desiring its accreditation.

Is there one?

 

What is accreditation?

Hey, why do you insist on reading your interpretation into my posts? You just keep punching the air. :smilewinkgrin:

I am fairly conversant with accreditation since I have seriously studied it, served on standards committees, etc. I do visit the web sites and d/l the manuals from the accreditors as well as the federal agencies.

However, you do seem somewhat confused about the actual accreditation process. The federal government only recognizes legitimate accreditors; they do not approve schools as your post seems to imply.

I have attended both accredited and unaccredited schools. I support the right to non-accreditation but I will not allow it as an excuse for poor standards. Many "less than wonderful" schools are using the non-accreditation out of conviction argument as an excuse because they simply don't meet the standards. Others opt for bogus accreditors, which is a sure sign of a degree mill and intention to mislead.

No, I've never attended Northwest.

 

There are emails sent to me at times from places that are secular degree mills, wanting several hundred dollars for any degree up to a doctorate. These email may be generated because of going back and picking up some classes that are needed. Anyway, one of these secular schools that seems most outrageous is called Almeda. They have an accrediting agency called the AOAEX, which was founded the same year as Almeda. They claim to be an international accrediting agency. One can upgrade a Bachelor's to a Masters for $700 and a to a doctorate for a little more.

If one uses the above type of degree to get a job anywhere, secular or otherwise, the least that will happen is firing and possibly prosecution in some states. There are many such organizations out there, to name a few, Ashwood, Concordia, Belford, others.

Then there is the marginal group, that requires some work, but not much. They are still not accredited by the six regional agencies, but seem to be above a diploma for money. They include schools like Kennedy-Western, Caplin, and others. Some states like Oregon do not look at these schools much better.

These are not examples of what point that is trying to be made here. Maybe sometimes one can get carried away, but seeing day after day, year after year of government ineptness, experiencing it every day in most areas in which they function, maybe a better way to get across what I am trying to say is: It would certainly be nice if there was a better way for the six legitimate accrediting agencies to be approved by something other than the US Department of Education.

Your points are correct. The government does not accredit, and we have many areas of our life that the government sets standards. It is easy to get carried away with this. It is not so much where or how I went to college, it is thinking of children and grandchildren's education after high school and government involvement and the results.

Maybe one equates (maybe a bad comparision), but look at the public schools K-12and what the government has done to them. A total disaster. Just wishful thinking that the government keep its incompetent hands out of our kids college.

Your points are well taken. College and especially Christian colleges are much more detached from the government than that. Thanks for putting up with my rants. This is sometimes a sore point.