A challenge to Arminianism

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Mar 6, 2005.

  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    1 Corinthians 1:18-19

    Who are those who are perishing and who are those who are being saved? Also, it seems to me that part of Arminian style evangelism tends to focus on peruading the lost that the Bible is logical and makes sense using the wisdom of the world (i.e.: Creation Science, prophecy in the news, etc...). Why would a Christian want to try to persuade a lost person for the Gospel when it is folly to them. It seems to me that the only way it will reach a person is if the Lord opens their hearts to the message which has the power to save them.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    verses 22-24 of the same chapter
     
  3. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT
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    Hi Joseph;
    Those who are being saved are those who have confessed Christ as there Savior and that He is who He claims to be. Those who are dying are the one who do not. As far as evangelism we are comanded by Christ to preach the gospel to every creature. We realize that Calvinist would rather leave this to the Arminians because they will not obey the Lord's command. It has nothing to do with logic or the wisdom of the world. But the obedience of our Lord. You might try it you never know even you might like it.
    Christ didn't say wait till I open there hearts to the gospel. It is infact the power of the gospel being preached that draws men. Else How will they hear with out a preacher. It seems you attempt to excuse your laziness of telling others with your own logic, and you own world wisdom.
    It seems that Calvinist always accuse those who oppose them of there own short commings.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  4. johnp.

    johnp.
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  5. rc

    rc
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    ILL,
    Again answers with no scripture.
    24but to those whom God has called.

    NO MAN SEEKS AFTER GOD, NO NOT ONE.

    Those whom God foreknows He predestinates, those He predinates he CALLS THOSE HE CALLS HE JUSTIFIES and those He justifies He GLORIFIES!!

    Oh that glorious chain! Preaching the gospel is a commnand. The gospel doesn't draw, God does.
     
  6. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT
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    Poor rc no one pays any attention to him [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  7. rc

    rc
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    Yeah, no one paid attention to Jeremiah either.
    Pride come before a fall ILL.

    That verse just scares you doesn't it?
    You are so desperate to make God out to be a liar.

    NO MAN SEEKS AFTER GOD, NO NOT ONE.
    Take God at HIS word ILL.
     
  8. rc

    rc
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    Yeah, no one paid attention to Jeremiah either.
    Pride come before a fall ILL.

    That verse just scares you doesn't it?
    You are so desperate to make God out to be a liar.

    NO MAN SEEKS AFTER GOD, NO NOT ONE.
    Take God at HIS word ILL.
     
  9. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT
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    rc;
    So now you're comparing your self to prophets
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Yeah you need to watchout for that pride of yours. :rolleyes:
    Mike :D
     
  10. rc

    rc
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    I'm comparing the situation. Your not listening doesn't mean that what is said is not true.

    And pride? Your the one who says you have control over your destiny and not God! THATS pride.
     
  11. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT
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    rc;
    Well I don't believe anything you say because you never have anything good to say.
    No that's truth. You make God out to be a rapist in that He forces His love on us. This not true this is not in scripture. Why do you accuse God of such things.
    Mike
     
  12. johnp.

    johnp.
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    ILUVLIGHT. :cool:

    JAS 5:17 Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. 18 Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops.
    Don't you just hate that happening all the time? :cool:

    johnp. :cool:
     
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Those who are being saved are those who have confessed Christ as there Savior and that He is who He claims to be. Those who are dying are the one who do not. As far as evangelism we are comanded by Christ to preach the gospel to every creature. We realize that Calvinist would rather leave this to the Arminians because they will not obey the Lord's command. It has nothing to do with logic or the wisdom of the world. But the obedience of our Lord. You might try it you never know even you might like it.</font>[/QUOTE]1. I find it interesting that the Bible describes salvation as something that is happening (incompleted action) while you describe it as something as having already happened. Or, are you implying that salvation is not a one time event, but something that God does every day? Are you referring to a works salvation? Incomplete salvation? Please explain.

    2. Calvinist believe in preaching the Word of God out of obedience to his word. However, trying to persuade the lost using the wisdom of the world seems to be a more Arminian tendency as it has been my experience that they have little faith in the work of the Holy Spirit to convict the lost of their sin and bring them to repentance. Therefore, since they believe so strongly in free will, they think they need to use worldly logic and wisdom to convince them of their need for faith and salvation.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  14. rc

    rc
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    Joseph,
    Are you a Nazereim?
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I really couldn't tell you since I have no idea what the word means and when I did an internet search, it came up empty. What is a Nazereim?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  16. rc

    rc
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    You make God out to be a rapist in that He forces His love on us.

    Boy are you ignorant.
    Polly want a cracker? Polly want a cracker?
    All Arminians just go around quoting each other blind to the truth, just like evolutionists quote their blind teachers, not wanting to be confused with the facts they would rather hold to their biased presuppositions.

    Listen to the fathers of old ILL and don't be in the "land of forgetfullness"... ALL the church fathers condemned arminianism as heresy.
     
  17. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi Joseph;
    I agree with you it is incompleted action we won't be saved as in past tense until we are either resurrected or raptured. I use the KJV and I guess thats why I refer to it in the past tense. I also believe that we must persevere to the end of our lives. By persevere I mean to keep the faith. This is not work for Salvation as some claim. If it were a work then Romans 4:5 would be a lie. How could a man not have any works and yet be saved by His faith if faith it self is a work?
    I disagree with Calvinism completely. I do not agree with any pedal of the tulip. As far as conviction. It is what convinces us of the truth but this is not regeneration. Regeneration does not happen until we have faith. Man doesn't need to be saved in order to have faith but man does need faith in order to be saved. We are saved by Grace that comes through faith. No faith No grace. I believe we are chosen by God first but it is we who trust Jesus first. Eph1:12.

    Conviction takes placed before grace, before faith. Conviction is the work of the Spirit regeneration is the work of Christ.

    Agrippa was convicted yet he wasn't saved because he resisted.Act 26:28
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  18. johnp.

    johnp.
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    ILUVLIGHT.
    But that is where you are wrong because Jesus Himself said it is a work: JN 6:28 Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" 29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
    Faith is a work.

    johnp.
     
  19. Joseph_Botwinick

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    rc,

    Did you mean to ask if I was a Nazarene? The answer is no. I am a Southern Baptist from birth, and a Christian through the grace of God.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  20. padredurand

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    Arminians preach the Word for the same reason. I think it overstated that Arminians have little faith in the work of the Holy Spirit. My experience is the opposite. A persuasive argument may change a mind, but it will only remain changed until it encounters another persuasive argument. Only God can change the heart through the person of the Holy Spirit. I do not know of any Arminian doctrine to the contrary.

    You mean like Paul's message on Mar's Hill? See Acts 17: 22-34
     

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