A couple of odd statements about faith.

You are correct however that in some place He excersize His omniscience and in other did not.

But this is more about how He responded to faith.
If it is given by God, why be amazed a person would have it?
Only those God has given Him will come, right? So the excersizing of faith should not be surprizing in one whom God gave it - I would assume, but I'm not Jesus.
What makes it more of oddity is that it is a Gentile.

The other things was why was Jesus constantly getting on to them about their faith. Jesus doesn't tell them they aren't using the faith God gave them to it's fullest measure, but is constantly equating it as 'their faith' or 'your faith' and that (it seems to me) is why it was either lacking or not there at all. Because they did not have full understanding of who Christ is yet - and could not until His death and Resurrection.

But what about the verse where Jesus states

If saving faith is by nature the same as our daily faith, should this not establish SOME TYPE of faith on the earth. Since faith is that which is given by God (as some say) whether for salvation or for daily life.

I don't believe He is referencing saving faith, but living faith, and yet faith without works is a dead or non-existant faith. So shall He find faith when He returns?

 

Tempting (see I told you it bordered on sinful :laugh: ) but I must decline this time, I have ALOT to do this weekend and I still have some things to go over and also to finish. (preaching Sat AND Sun)

Ok, where did this come is I was asking are not saving faith and daily faith the same things and not two distinct types of faith.

So am I right in assuming that this faith God gives us (in conjunction with the new nature - per Soveriegn Doctrines of Grace) that the person can not help but obey God unto repentence and belief. AND YET... when it comes to daily faith in life we are not compelled to the same obedience as that which compelled us to believe as at the first?

In light of all faith being given by God should it not have the same effect each time faith is given? They did not grow in faith to be saved, so why is God going to 'give' more faith when we are told to grow in it.
So even if God gives faith, I don't think He continues to 'give' more when we are to build up what we have.

I don't know if I'm making sense but I'm trying here.

I don't believe God's power deminished but that man is responsible with the faith he has (or in your view given) is the key. (and in my view is why some are condemned for not using their faith saving upon Christ but in something else having no eternal value)

We have in one view; faith which is givin is unmovable toward the point of believing unto salvation and then God seals us, but our faith is movable in all other areas. until we mature in Christ and therefore our faith must be strengthened by His Spirit and His Word.

In the other view; faith is there but worthless without God's object of salvation in which to yeild itself to for salvaiton. At which point God seals us knowing that our faith is small and in His sealing us and keeping us thereby He maintains us as we are to grow. Yet we will stay in a movable state of 'faith' (or opinion is a better word) until we mature in Christ and know His truths. And therefore our faith must be strengthened by His Spirit and His Word until we are no longer babes.

This is all I'm saying. One explains why we have small faith that must be strengthened but the other simply acknowledges it is there.

OK, I am completely rambling on now :laugh:
I'll shut up.

I can't deny that. Preach On !!

I agree we see the mechanics differently, but I think we have the same view of Faith. We must grow in that which has been set upon Christ.

Well said, but then again -what else did I expect :laugh:

 

So Jesus wasn't serious about saying it was "your faith" or "their faith", but He was... I can't think of any other word but deceving them. If it was not their faith but God's Jesus was not being truthful.

When Jesus stated "your faith has made you whole" Did the person walk away praising themselves. No, they went away praising God.

When Jesus stated "your faith has healed you". Did the person walk away giving themselves glory. No, they went away glorifying God.

Or "your faith has made you whole", "according to your faith let it be so", "O woman, great [is] thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour" (another Gentile of great faith - I forgot about her), "your faith has saved you, go in peace" (woman with the issue of blood), 'Receive your sight, your faith has saved you" (blind man Luk 18)

or the Apostles "increase our faith"

So it 'appears' to be a consistant theme that Jesus maintains it was their faith which was placed in Him.

But here is an interesting one:

What think ye

Apparently it is "Pick on Reformedbeliever day". *snicker* I knew that holiday was somewhere near mine.

 

Are you really trying to tell me that you can not be perfect and obey the Law?
Come on, those who are born of God do not sin - remember :laugh:

However, I agree with your above about coming back to God in our short commings that He may strengthen, and guide us in His Will.

I need to get off of here if I'm going to make it to your house on time :thumbs:

No, I need to get my family some good eats so it is off to a resteraunt of my wifes choosing.

Bless you brother, mightily in the Lord our God according to His purpose and Plan.

 

Anyone else care to read the OP and comment?

 

bumpity bump bump :smilewinkgrin:

 

It is David the Giant slayer Notice his sling and the small stone laying beside the head of the well musculed giant.

I chose this avater for two reasons.
1. I was named after the David of scriptures
2. I liked the fact a small scraggly kid brought down the (theological) giants, not by power, skill, or ability but his assurance in all that God had told him.

It just seemed fitting after the different debate boards I have encountered and interacted with.

Although I am considering changing it soon.

 

I agee that Jesus is a man as well as God.

The questions were kinda asking so questions to who hold faith is given by God. Thus why I bring up the different verses regarding Christ many comments on their faith, and that on only two occassions He was amazed. So I asked the questin if all that the Father gives Him will come to Him, and that coming would be IN FAITH, why any amazement AT THEIR FAITH. To see faith in a person should not have been such an astounding thing since that is what God would give His followers.

That is also why I asked - if God gives faith why are the disciples declared by Jesus on numerious occassions to have 'littel fait' or 'no faith'?

 

No one is denying His humanity, but if those who will come to Him (which were given to Him of the Father) are to come to Him by faith. Why does he marvelle twice at rgw faith expressed in scripture if faith is something given by God (and both instances are Gentiles).

Look at the whole of the OP this is more of a small portion that I am discussing.

 

IOW - you don't know.
Ok using your answer then He should have marvelled at the other different times faith was excersized, like of the Jews instead of only the Gentiles.

Many were healed, the dead raised, demons cast out (when He sent OUT His disciples) et... due to their faith. These couple of things listed should constitute at least a great type of faith, and these were all done by the Jews.

Yet a Gentile believed Christ could but speak the word and it would be done. - granted that is pretty great faith but is it greater than believing He could raise the dead?

Or like with the Gentile woman who sought Jesus and He told her that which He has is likened to food for His children (Jews) and not to be given to the dogs (Gentiles).
Yet she responds, but even the dogs are fed the scraps from the table. At this she is declared to have Great faith, but is this truely greater, than having no hope of a cure for a disease you have had for years, to believe if you could just touch the hem of His garment you would be healed.

So my question remains why 'would' He marvell KNOWING that all faith is given by God to those God is giving to Christ. Why would he down play the faith God gave them by saying at times they had none or that it was very little.

I am just trying to get a discussion going concerning faith, and the way Jesus speaks of it in regard to His followers and others, IF it is something God gives and not something man already is 'potentially' capable of.
Then why the amazement AND the frustration with and toward their faith?