A DEFENSE of "Once saved, ALWAYS saved"

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by calvin4me, May 28, 2004.

  1. calvin4me

    calvin4me
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    A Defense

    1) People who are TRULY saved do not belittle that gift and say,"Gee...I can sin all I want now", because Christ directs thier hearts to walk worthy of Him: "Now may the Lord DIRECT your hearts into the love of God and into the patience of Christ." (2 Thess. 3:5)
    2) We are sealed: "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were SEALED for the day of redemption." (Eph. 4:30)
    3) Christ knows we will fail: "But the Lord is faithful, who will ESTABLISH you and GAURD you form the evil one." (2 Thess. 3:3)
    4) Yes, we are to be overcomers, and we WILL be, because: "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world, and this is the victory that has overcome the world -our faith" (1 John 5:4) Remember, faith is God's gift to us.
    5) We are SAFELY KEPT: "who are KEPT by the power of God through faith FOR salvation ready to be revealed in the last times." (1 Pet. 1:5)
    6) God Himself daily works on our sanctification, PRESERVING us: "Now may the God of peace HIMSELF sanctify you completely; and may you whole spirit, soul, and body be PRESERVED blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful, who also WILL do it." (1 Thess. 5:23,24)
    7) Also: "You are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power." (Col. 2:10)
    8) We are FIRMLY ESTABLISHED within Him alone, NOT in ourselves: "-rooted and built up in Him and ESTABLISHED in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it in thanksgiving." (Col. 2:7)
    9) We must not rely totaly on ourselves:"...who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ, and have NO confidence in the flesh." (Phil. 3:3)
    10) God COMPLETES what He begins in us: "being confident of this very thing, the He who has begun a good work in you WILL complete it until the day of Jesus Christ." (Php.1:6)
    11) It is al grace, grace grace!: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the GIFT of God." (Eph.2:8)
    12) The Holy Spirit "is the GAURANTEE of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." (Eph. 1:14)
    13) Again, it is His mighty grace, and "not of works, lest anyone should boast." (Eph. 2:9)
    14) Invidually saved by His ETERNAL DECREE: "having predestined us TO adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, ACCORDING TO the good pleasure of HIS will" (Eph.1:5)
    15) We will ALWAYs mess up our walk with Him: "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you DO NOT do the things that you wish." (Gal. 5:17)
    16) We MUST rely on the Cross, NOT ourselves: "But God forbid I boast EXCEPT in the CROSS of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world." (Gal. 6:14)
    17) We can never be UNcrucified: "I HAVE been crucified WITH Christ; it is no longer I who live but Christ lives in me." (Gal 2:20)
    18) If you are truly saved, you WILL NOT truly fall away:"And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having ALL SUFFICIENCY in ALL things, may have an abundance for every good work" (2 Cor. 9:8)
    19) Another gaurantee: "Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has also given us the Spirit as a GAURANTEE." (2 Cor. 5:5)
    20) Once born again, you are forever CHANGED:"But he who is joined to the Lord is ONE spirit with Him." (1Cor. 6:17)
    21) We must walk worthy, but that alone does NOT secure us: "that NO flesh should glory in His presence." (1 Cor. 1:29)
    22) Once again. HE establishes us: "Now to Him who is able to ESTABLISH you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began" (Rom. 16:25)
    23) We are CONFIRMED: "who WILL confirm you TO THE END, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Cor. 1:8)
    24) Salvation is NOT irrevocable: "For the gifts and the calling of God IRREVOCABLE." (Rom. 11:29)
    Salvation is a gift.
    25) Salvation is ultimately HIS choice: "Therefore He has mercy on who He wills, and whom He wills He hardens." (Rom 9:18)
    26) Again: "So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy." (Rom. 9:16)
    27) We all know Romans 8:29,30!
    28) WE have no power to SUSTAIN our salvation, but only HE does: "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) NOTHING GOOD dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to PERFORM what is good I DO NOT find" (Rom. 7:18)
    29) Jesus says: "And I give them eternal life, and they SHALL NEVER PERISH; neither shall ANYONE [ourselves included] snatch them out of My hand." (Jn. 10:28)

    Here are a few more:
    "For YOU ALONE, O Lord, make me dwell in SAFETY." (Ps.4:8)
    "For You, O Lord, will bless the righteous; with favor You will SURROUND him with a SHIELD."
    (Ps. 5:12)
    "You enlarged my path under me, so my feet did not slip." (Ps. 18:36)
    "My eyes are ever toward the Lord, for He SHALL pluck my feet out of the net." (Ps. 25:15)
    "Shepher them also, and BEAR THEM UP forever." (Ps.28:9)
    "My times are in YOUR hand." (Ps. 31:15)
    "On all the inhabitants of the earth, He FASHIONS THIER HEARTS individually" (Ps. 33:15)
    "For the Lord loves justice, and does not forsake His saints; they are PRESERVED forever." (Ps. 37:28)
    "Blessed is the man YOU choose, and cause to approach You." (Ps. 65:4)
    "For the Lord will not cast off His people, nor will He forsake His inheritance." (Ps.94:14)
    :He preserves the souls of His saints; He DELIVERS THEM out of the hand of the wicked." (Ps. 97:10)
    "The Lord shall preserve you from all eveil; He shall preserve you soul. The Lord shall preserve your going out and your coming in" (Ps.121:7,8)
    "Though I walk in the midst of trouble, You WILL revive me" (Ps. 137:7)
    "A man's heart plans his way,but the LORD directs his steps." (Prov.16:9)
    "There are many plans in a man's heart, nevertheless the Lord's counsel -THAT will stand." (Porv. 19:21)

    There are numerous more Scriptures in the Word that speak of the doctrine of the perserverance of the saints.
     
  2. npetreley

    npetreley
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    Terrific scriptural defense, thanks!
     
  3. Skandelon

    Skandelon
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    I'm not so much trying to disagree with OSAS as I am trying to understand it more fully.

    If OSAS is true, then what is Paul calling his audience to fear in this passage?

    Romans 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, F57 if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

    Thanks
     
  4. calvin4me

    calvin4me
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    To Skandelon-
    In my opinion this has to do with the Jews who were attempting to convert to Christianity but decided to resort back to Judaism. The "natural branches" are the Jews, the wild ones the Gentiles, who are grafted into the vine. If either the Jews OR the Gentiles reject Christ, thet will be cut off.
    Once you have accepted Christ, you are born again, and no longer risk being "cut off" because of His daily work of sanctification with us.
    Thanks for your input. [​IMG]

    [ May 29, 2004, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: calvin4me ]
     
  5. Skandelon

    Skandelon
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    Calvin4me,

    Let's break down what you have said.

    "Jews..were attempting to convert to Christianity"

    Isn't "converting to Christianity" the same as "being saved?"

    Don't only "the elect" in your system "attempt" to convert to Christianity?

    What is the vine? Is it possible to be saved and not be in the vine? Or is it possible to be in the vine and not be saved? Can you be cut off from the vine and still remain saved?

    Just trying to understand because your statements seem to be contradictory to me. Maybe I just don't understand you.
     
  6. calvin4me

    calvin4me
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    Skandelon:

    "Don't only 'the elect' in your system 'attempt' to convert to Christianity?"

    Obviously not! Think about it. "Not all are Israel that are Israel"
    Even the demons believe, and tremble.
    Not everybody who says "Lord,Lord" will be saved.
    Instead of showing your disdain for Calvinism, (which you are obviously entitled to), why don't you instead work with me in discovering the truth?
    You are ignoring (or forgetting) a LOT of Scriptures.

    If you have a rebuttal for EVERY SINGLE Scripture that I posted In "A defense of OSAS"...
    then I will burn every book by Calvin I own.
     
  7. calvin4me

    calvin4me
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    Skandelon:

    Before we go any further, I will save you the trouble by saying that I am not going into the famous Calvinist/Armanian debate...indeed, I have been in hundreds of them on other web sites and I will confess I was a fool to start this one. One Scripture branches off into another and another and the debate never ends. It's been going on for centuries and will undoubtedly go one until He comes back. I'm a glutton for punishment.
    In the end, it's our love for Him that only matters. [​IMG]
     
  8. Skandelon

    Skandelon
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    Disdain? Work with you in discovering the truth? I don't understand what it was about my post that leads you to believe I'm not seeking to better understand your position. I merely asked you clarifying questions about your response.

    As a former Calvinists and a friend to many Calvinistic believers, I remember that Calvinistic doctrine insisted that no one would seek after God or attempt to come to him and be rejected. You seemed to indicated that there were some Jews who were attempting to become Christians but they were refused. I was merely attempting to reconcile that.

    Unfortunately you never answered any of the following questions to help me see where you are coming from. I assure you I am not seeking to ignore or forget the scripture, just better understand them as a whole within there correct context.
     
  9. calvin4me

    calvin4me
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    Skandelon: read post above this one.
     
  10. Skandelon

    Skandelon
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    I appreciate the sentiment of your post, I honestly do, but I disagree. Love is certainly the most important but it is not "all that matters," which is why I continue to seek to understand and know more about God through the study of his Word.

    I'm disappointed not to finally have some answers to these questions concerning Romans 11 in light of the doctrine of OSAS, but I understand your position. There comes a time that debate or even exchanging ideas via internet becomes tiresome.

    God bless.
     

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