A Determinist Question

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by InTheLight, Mar 11, 2012.

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  1. InTheLight

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    I've asked this before but here goes again.

    Does God determine everything that happens even down to the smallest detail?

    I'll use an example to illustrate: Does god determine what I will have for lunch next Friday?

    Or do I decide what I'm going to have for lunch next Friday and God had foreknowledge of my choice?
     
  2. Alive in Christ

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    No. Of course not.

    It pleases God to give men and women free will, with the ability to make choices.

    If it werent that way, then we would be a bunch of robots. ( calvinism)
     
    #2 Alive in Christ, Mar 11, 2012
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  3. SolaSaint

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    buckle up!
     
  4. DHK

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    Well, are you a hard determinist or a soft determinist? :)
     
  5. Alive in Christ

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    I know...could be rough and rocky traveling!
     
  6. Iconoclast

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    There is not one atom or molecule that exists or moves outside of God's control;
    1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things,aken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
    ( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 2 whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes t3:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )
    2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )

    You make your plan what you want to have for lunch...subject to God's will.

    You plan to have a roast beef sandwich for lunch, so you go to the store to buy the roast beef. The man cooking the roast beef has a heart attack and dies...the roast beef burns to a crisp....you settle for a ham and swiss..as there is no other store in range. You made your plan, but providentially you were over ruled.
    It is not foreknowledge...it is God's omniscence that he knows all things, and yet the ham and swiss is God's provision for you....The why it happened this way...is part of the secret things of God. The man cooking the roast beef came up upon his appointed time of death.
    In scripture gen 50:20 is a classic passage on this;

    Paul made plans...subject to God's will;
    This passage in james teaches the same principle;
    As christians we make plans as best we can according to the revealed will of God...but we trust that God knows best and will answer plans according to His eternal purpose.


    but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    29Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

    30But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
     
    #6 Iconoclast, Mar 11, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2012
  7. jonathan.borland

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    So we have free will and choose something and if God agrees it goes through and if he disagrees it doesn't? Or are we free to choose and do things that God disagrees with? I don't think you answered the question, Iconoclast. The OP asks the extent of God's determinism and seems to be a poke at Calvinists.
     
  8. Iconoclast

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    There is no free will.
    We have self will
    Read the quote from the confession ...it answers the question exactly
    God does not wait and see what we do in order to agree or disagree
    God does all His good pleasure
    The term God's determinism is more of a fatalistic idea...rather than a godly idea.
    I do not think it is intended to be a poke at calvinism.many struggle with this teaching.Even those who believe it 100% are still learning much about it.

    There are some who resist this teaching , but in time come to understand it as the truth of God. There are some who understand only basic ideas about sin,and the blood, and by God given faith are savingly drawn to Jesus.
    There are some who actively oppose God and his sovereign plan, and they will be cast into hell.Think of pharoah...who is the Lord that I should obey Him.....he knows about God's absolute sovereignty now!
    We are called to be faithful with the talents given to us. To whom much is given, much will be required.

    Some never come to these truths because of an emotional bias....that is between them and God.
     
    #8 Iconoclast, Mar 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2012
  9. convicted1

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    Confessions aren't infallible, but the Word of God is.

    Choose this day whom ye shal serve.......
     
  10. convicted1

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    And the little child being molested somewhere as I type this is because God decreed it? Gotcha........:tear:
     
  11. Benjamin

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    Let me see if I got this philoso…err biblical teaching of Icon’s right? It has been decreed, that yes, God determines down to the smallest details things like overruling that InTheLight should plan to have a roast beef sandwich and for secret reasons He determines things like the the cook should die before that happens so that InTheLight would have to settle for a ham and Swiss as per God’s pre-determined will.

    Icon’s irrefutable proof-text passage to support his biblical teaching that God determines such things:
    20But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

    Gosh, Icon you never cease to amaze me, what an interpreter of scripture you are! What insight! Surely a man determined by God Himself to reveal to us these biblical truths which are specified under the authority of “The” Historic Church’s infallible doctrines of the scriptures! I’m just beside myself as I witness your wisdom and understanding in this matter! I was blind but now I see!!!

    Surely God’s determinate decrees cannot be resisted; Icon speaks the truth of God, Amen!



    But not Icon; he is has been gifted to teach God’s truths, Amen!


    Do not oppose Icon’s teaching of God’s sovereign plan for fear of hell, Amen!

    More biblical teaching from Icon warning us not learn of God’s absolute sovereignty later be as Pharaoh, take this as a warning, Amen!



    Icon has no choice in the matter but to teach us, Amen!


    God will judge those who follow their emotions and do not come to the truths given by Icon, Amen!
     
  12. Arbo

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    Culinary Calvinism?
     
  13. convicted1

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    Remember, God caused the cook to "kick the bucket" so that the only other choice would be ham and swiss. This is so that IntheLight would give God all the glory for it.


    This philosophy has more holes in it than does the swiss cheese on IntheLight's sammich!!! :D :wavey:
     
  14. InTheLight

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    I see, so "it's a mystery, and some day we will know the answer". Now, where have I heard that before. Oh yeah!

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1815459&postcount=19
     
    #14 InTheLight, Mar 12, 2012
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  15. webdog

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    For the determinist, along with the OP I have asked numerous times this question which goes right along with the OP...if God gives you a desire, can you desire something contrary to it?
     
  16. jbh28

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    1. Was God in control?
    2. Did God know about the event before it happened?
    3. Could God have stopped the event?
     
  17. jbh28

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    What's your answer?
     
  18. jbh28

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    Not really. I've explained it many times but some want to stick with their straw man. God ordaining every event to the smallest detail does not mean that we don't have choices.
     
  19. Amy.G

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    I'm not a determinist but the answer is obviously yes. Because of God's Spirit in me, if have good desires. I desire to please God. But because I still live in corrupted flesh, I have desires contrary to God's desires. There is a constant war going on between my spirit and my flesh. This is biblical and has nothing to do with determinism.
     
  20. Amy.G

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    To see God's sovereignty in action, read the book of Job.
     
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